Kerri Sloper (00:02)
It was a friend of mine who I was at her house with a bunch of people and she is, I guess the person that started me off on recognizing what I went through because it was just me and her. We were together. Then other people came and I was different. And she said to me, you're different when other people come around.
And that's when it really occurred to me, well, it's the mask I put on, it's the acting face, it's the musician, it's I can pretend to be something and hide the real me underneath. And so because she was my friend, that's when I said it to her because she recognised what I was doing, that I was completely unaware that I even did that in the first place.
Kristi McVee - Intro (00:49)
Welcome to Conversations with Kristi I'm Kristi McVee a former WA police officer, specialist child interviewer and child abuse detective. For years I worked on the front lines investigating child sexual abuse, where I saw the risks, the patterns and most importantly, the ways that we can protect our kids. Now I'm here to share that knowledge with you. This podcast is all about real conversations, giving parents, carers and educators the tools to keep their kids safe, both in person and online.
Through survivor stories, expert insights and practical advice, we'll navigate these tough topics together so you feel informed, confident and empowered. Because when we know better, we can do better and our kids deserve nothing less. CONTENT WARNING Some topics and conversations can be triggering for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised as your mental health is important. Please refer to my website and the show notes for available support services.
Kristi McVee (01:46)
Hello and welcome back to the Conversations with Kristi podcast. I am super excited to be with Kerry Sloper. Kerry, thank you so much for being here on the podcast. We connected through again through LinkedIn. I find all of my podcast friends on LinkedIn and it's so lovely to meet people like yourself who have written books for kids because we as I've got a book for parents, but we are lacking
in children's books around the topics of child sexual abuse and online child abuse and and all of the things that we're going through and you've written actually four books now about about your own lived experience but also about the topic so before I before I say too much about you how about you tell and my listeners or tell listeners a little bit about yourself and you know what you do and how
Kerri Sloper (02:24)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (02:39)
to this space of sharing your story through kids books.
Kerri Sloper (02:42)
Alright, well, I'm a musician. I have 14 instruments. So just a few. And I've been teaching. I worked it out for 40 years, which is a very long time. I got my first job in 1985 while I was still a student at WAPA. And yeah, and obviously I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.
and it started very young when I was four and it continued until I was nine when the abuser moved away. And then I ignored it for a very long time.
Kristi McVee (03:17)
as we tend to do.
Kerri Sloper (03:20)
Yeah
and then a long time ago, I can't remember exactly when, but I wrote the poem for this book and yep and then one day when I was at school a friend of mine, shared it with her and she said to me you need to put that in a book and when she did I found an illustrator who's in Spain through my niece
Kristi McVee (03:28)
the white canvas. It's called the yeah right.
Kerri Sloper (03:46)
and she illustrated it and it was interesting the backwards and forwards of ideas because I also like art myself and I did art, ATAR art. And so I wrote a, I had to do a storyboard, sent it to her and then she sent it back and I'd say, yes, no, change this, change that or I want you to add that in or whatever. So it's a bit of toing and froing.
Kristi McVee (04:03)
Mm-hmm.
Kerri Sloper (04:14)
and a language barrier. And then finally, yeah, it was released and I was really happy with it. So I had a book launch with the support of the current principal of the school that I work at. She's been a great advocate supporting me and encouraging me to go ahead with it. And then I...
Kristi McVee (04:16)
Yes.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (04:36)
I discovered, I thought I would be finished with one, but then I realised there was different parts to my healing journey that I felt could benefit children because that's really what my game is. Well, my goal is to help adult survivors can relate to these books as can children. And I feel like...
Kristi McVee (04:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (04:59)
It's interesting, in the last book launch there was a lady there who was 80 and she came up to me and she basically at my book launch confessed to her daughter that she had been abused and had never spoken of it before. And then I've had the daughter of a sexual abuse survivor who's had a difficult childhood because of the trauma her mother went through.
Kristi McVee (05:03)
you
Kerri Sloper (05:23)
and she's related to the books as well. And I've heard heaps from just my stories, those who come, read them, because they're true. And it was interesting. I did have one person say, you need to make this more culturally relatable to other cultures. And I said, but it's my story. And that's my truth.
Kristi McVee (05:26)
Yeah.
Yeah. β
Kerri Sloper (05:48)
And that's why even though yes you could look on it as a fictional book, it's actually not fictional, it's actually true, it's actually my story. And that I think is what people can relate to more than anything else.
Kristi McVee (05:54)
Mm-hmm.
And
yeah, and I've, you know, I got a copy of the books so that I could have them for my own library and to share with parents. And as I read through them all, I, like, first of all, I got to hand it to you, like poems and rhyming, amazing, well done, because I am useless and hopeless at those sorts of things. Like I can write, but I, I'm
conversational writer and whereas you have just done a beautiful job in putting this into rhyming and to make it sort of flow and they do work and the pictures are amazing, the graphics or the illustrations are amazing as well and I did notice you had the same illustrator on all four books but not only that, you sort of told your story in a way that's sort of like, here's me before, here's me whilst it was happening, here's me after and here's me now as an
Kerri Sloper (06:51)
you
Kristi McVee (06:55)
adult helping kids and all of the stories have that flow about them which is the perfect way to explain to kids right we don't want to end on a bad or sour note because it doesn't it's not something kids or anyone wants to read but at the same time that's you know you through what you're doing is what exactly that you you were you know four years old when they started so of course you know before that everything is well you're a baby you're a child and you're doing what you do and then you know through the
the motion of it happening to the when it stops to then you trying to go on that healing process and now you this amazing a musician with You know all of these amazing talents but also now sharing your story to help other people and to help our children Because these books are designed for children, you know to in order to understand it and the one thing that came to mind is that there's a lot of parents out there that don't know how to help their kids through their abuse they don't know
to talk about it and they don't know how to you know help them relate to someone else and these this what came to mind was how amazing are these books to help kids understand what they've been through as well and that there is hope.
Kerri Sloper (08:00)
Well, that's my purpose. And of course, I
have had people who pity me and I really don't like that at all. And you know, you'll never be normal. What's normal? you'll never... They put limits up because of what happened to you as a child. And I'm like, no, it doesn't have to be true. You know, I've never been into substance abuse or...
Kristi McVee (08:21)
No, I don't buy into that. Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (08:26)
or any of that, never had to, I found healthy coping strategies, which was music. You know, and that really helped me because you can wander off and you don't have to think about anything. And I mean, I was obsessed, I practiced six hours a day, you know. So then.
Kristi McVee (08:32)
Yeah, yes I can see that.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And probably
people were questioning probably your passion in music, but your music was your outlet. The music was your release. Music was your healer.
Kerri Sloper (08:52)
Yes.
Yeah,
and writing poetry because I've written probably in excess of 50 poems but I'm really proud of these because and the thing is speaking out is what healed me and I never thought that that would because it was it was very frightening. The very first book when I shared this with my friend mentor Julie, she
Kristi McVee (09:06)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I bet.
Kerri Sloper (09:21)
She shared it with the senior leadership team and then they would say things like, you're brave. And I thought, no, I don't want to be told I'm brave. I was uncomfortable with being brave, but she was right. And with each book, I've got stronger, but I've also felt the four is it. That's all. It tells everything. You know, this one is my questions.
Kristi McVee (09:36)
It is very brave. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (09:48)
Why? Why me? Why so long? Why didn't anybody listen? Because I did speak out, but I wasn't given the right words. And that may be a generational thing. I think we're far more aware now that we used to be. β And then this one is, there is a price to pay. And it is a heavy price and I pay for it every day.
Kristi McVee (10:03)
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (10:14)
It's a lot less than it used to be. But there are still triggers. And this book I wrote because of a friend of mine who I've assisted who discovered that her three daughters were sexually abused by their father. And I wrote it because I was very angry for a long time.
Kristi McVee (10:21)
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (10:38)
at the fact that I spoke out, I said, don't leave me with him, he hurts us, all of that sort of thing. Nobody listened. And then as I progressed through my healing, I realised that I'm not the only victim. Anyone who believes a perpetrator is a victim because they're a victim of lies. And the thing about this that I didn't know,
when I spoke to my husband after writing it, he said, Kerry, do you realize what pedophiles are called in prison? And I said, no. And he said, they're called rock spiders. Well, I didn't know that when I wrote this. I had no idea. But, and this one is the one I think that is the most powerful for me because in realizing that
Kristi McVee (11:20)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (11:31)
anyone who believes the perpetrator is a victim and I'm being kind by saying that because I was angry for a long time about not being believed about because when I told my father and my mother they my mother believed me straight away my father did for a day and then he couldn't handle it wanted to ignore it and pretended that I wasn't telling the truth.
Kristi McVee (11:39)
Mmm. β
Kerri Sloper (11:58)
And obviously I've made peace with him. He's no longer, both my parents are gone now, but I was mad. I was really angry. But then I came to a place where I realised that if you believe a pedophile over a child, then you're a victim too, because you're a victim of lies. And when you actually come to that realisation, which may take...
couple of days, more than likely a couple of years or more, how bad will you feel when you realise that you actually contributed to the pain of an abuse victim because you didn't believe them? And so that's why this book came about because I wanted that message and I wanted people to forgive themselves.
if they didn't believe a child straight away, so that the child can have their family. They don't have to lose everything. They lost their innocence. They lost their, you know, a lot. Why should they lose their family as well?
Kristi McVee (12:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I think I mean it sounds to me like writing that one was probably the biggest I guess you had some epiphanies you had some like moments where of clarity where you were able to see Not only from your perspective of that hurt child that that abandoned child in a way But also from the side of the purse your dad or your family who was also a victim of being lied to and manipulated and you know groomed as well so the the thing is is that
Yes, in some cases you
your dad and your mum, your mum believed you but your dad was struggling with that. He was a victim of the fact that he didn't possibly didn't know how to deal with it and so therefore he buried his head in the sand and that's you know a lot of people do that unfortunately and we wonder why but one of the things that one of the reasons why they do that is because they are struggling to comprehend the how big of a problem this is and it and when we know something we have to do something right so
Kerri Sloper (14:02)
Yep, totally.
Kristi McVee (14:04)
And sometimes we don't know what to do so we just ignore it and we try and get on with it and I've been on the side of you know parents who have done everything they could and parents who have done nothing and I've seen both sides and it's all traumatic no matter what. So it can be traumatic healing, traumatic not so great but yeah.
Kerri Sloper (14:21)
It's frozen.
It froze then.
Kristi McVee (14:26)
Sorry, yeah, so yeah, it can be very traumatic for just everyone involved and You're right, you know when parents don't act yes You do lose them in a way and in a sense sometimes in the physical way that we lose them and then we lose them in the That connection that we had and now we don't have that anymore Do you think that?
Did you feel angry as a child or did you only feel angry once you remembered and you were processing what had happened to you?
Kerri Sloper (14:54)
never forgot.
I always remembered. I always detested the person.
I ignored or pushed it to the back and I didn't recognise it as being childhood sexual abuse until I grew up old enough to understand what that actually meant. And then of course what I went through wasn't basic either and
Yeah, it was interesting. It was a friend of mine who I was at her house with a bunch of people and she is, I guess the person that started me off on recognizing what I went through because it was just me and her. We were together. Then other people came and I was different. And she said to me, you're different when other people come around.
And that's when it really occurred to me, well, it's the mask I put on, it's the acting face, it's the musician, it's I can pretend to be something and hide the real me underneath. And so because she was my friend, that's when I said it to her because she recognised what I was doing, that I was completely unaware that I even did that in the first place.
And I'm sure that that's not uncommon. So that's when, you know, and I think that's with music. I've been able to act confident and act. People think I'm an extrovert and you do this and that when actual fact I'm not.
Kristi McVee (16:19)
not. Definitely not. Yeah.
on for that short period or that period of time however long and you're able to pretend you know that you know you're this confident bubbly person that can play anywhere do anything and wow the crowd kind of thing you know and that's it that's a mask and that's a something we do I mean look I wore a mask as a police officer people think that I must have been really confident I'm
Kerri Sloper (16:43)
Yep.
Kristi McVee (16:52)
one of the, and people I extend on stages, it's like a practice. We practice these things to become, look confident, know, fake it till you make it. It used to be my favorite saying. β And you know, survivors do that. Childhood survivors, the children do that as well. You know, they put on that mask to pretend because that's what's expected or that's what's easiest. That's what's safest. And then when they can, when they feel safe, they can take it off.
Kerri Sloper (17:00)
Yep. Yep.
Yep.
Kristi McVee (17:18)
Yeah, so yeah, I can see where that would have been. so that, how old were you when that happened?
Kerri Sloper (17:23)
I was probably late teens and then I only told my parents when I was 27 and I know which is quite a long time.
Kristi McVee (17:36)
Well, did you know the average, you're right in the average there because did you know the average is 24 years for women disclosing abuse? So, you're in the average of taking about, I mean, it started at four, so you're 27, you're almost 24 years, you're almost right in there.
Kerri Sloper (17:43)
Well.
Yep. Well, I remember my mum, the first thing she said was, now I understand why you hated him. So immediately things came to mind that, and there were neon signs for my mum, but she didn't go there.
Kristi McVee (18:11)
Again, when you have to, when you face things like that, you have to take action, you? You have to put in, and I guess, you know, your, generation, my, grew up in the 80s, you were probably a little bit, a little bit more, yeah. So, you know, yeah, so you know what I mean? Like that, I mean, when you said you've been doing music for 40 years, I was like, been teaching music for 40 years, I was like, yeah, we're dialing back that, you know, that dial. A little bit.
Kerri Sloper (18:22)
I'm a 65 baby.
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (18:39)
Yeah, and I mean the thing the thing about it is is that You know your mom's generation not that it's an excuse, but your mom's generation They didn't talk about it. They didn't do anything about it. We pretend it doesn't happen We're not going to you don't rock the boat
And you don't, and you know, it's such a shame. It's such a shame that she didn't do anything back then. It's such a shame, but that's why we're doing what we're doing, Kerry. Like, that's why you're creating these books for survivors and for children. And that's why we're talking about it. And that's what we're doing. We're empowering a new generation of people to talk out and to heal themselves so that their kids don't end up in that situation as well.
Kerri Sloper (19:19)
Well, that's the sad thing.
Both my parents were sexually abused as children. So it's intergenerational. β But I feel like I've broken my children and I wanted to break it. And the biggest thing for me is I want people who survived the worst thing that can happen to a child to have a happy, good life. To not feel like that that...
Kristi McVee (19:22)
you
is to unfortunately... break it.
Yes.
Kerri Sloper (19:45)
can tarnish the rest of their life. It doesn't have to. And it's hard, but you can, it doesn't have to tarnish your whole life.
Kristi McVee (19:48)
I agree 100 %
Yeah. So tell me a bit more about like your abusers obviously, you your parents, they didn't, you told them at 27 and when did you start writing the white canvas? Because you said it was your friend. Was that back in when you were a teenager or as you grew?
Kerri Sloper (20:14)
No.
Kristi McVee (20:15)
because it was released in 2022 so there you go that's when you got that one out into the world you birthed that baby
Kerri Sloper (20:23)
have my poetry, Tony do you want to go get, β there's a black folder in in that room. Yeah, my daughter, she's here. She, I wrote it years ago and I shared it with mum and mum liked it but the original poem had alludes to who the abuser is so I had to take it out to make it more
Kristi McVee (20:27)
it's okay.
Aww, hello daughter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (20:51)
generic for one of a better word.
Kristi McVee (20:54)
Yeah, because and I know that we talked briefly about it, you know, in most cases today, Kerry, a lot of people aren't able to identify who their abuser is because of, you know, legalities and stuff like that, regardless of where it is in the process or whatever. And that can sometimes really throw people that they can't say something about who did this to them. you know, again, you're doing a wonderful job of healing without having that out.
Kerri Sloper (21:10)
you
Kristi McVee (21:20)
you don't need to, well some people do but some people don't need to like share who it is, it's just about sharing the fact that it happened and it did happen and it's your story.
Kerri Sloper (21:30)
Well
biggest thing for me, like once upon a time I used to think, because people talk about forgiveness and forgiving the abuser and whatever, and that used to kind of make me angry and frustrated, and because I am Christian, but I used to think that unless I had justice,
Kristi McVee (21:42)
Yeah.
Yes.
Kerri Sloper (21:53)
or
whatever, that I was stopped from healing. And so that's the biggest thing is why these books came about is I have realised he's irrelevant. I don't need to forgive him. I don't need to give him air time. And I don't need him to feel whole or...
Kristi McVee (21:57)
it was holding you up.
Mm-hmm.
Yes. β
Kerri Sloper (22:18)
like patched up for want of a better word. Yes and I feel like that is empowering and letting go is much better than going down the justice vindication path β and I think more often than not you won't get justice and if you do it won't actually
Kristi McVee (22:20)
You can heal without all of that. Beautiful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (22:45)
be justice because what justice is there when you've had your childhood taken from you? There isn't any justice. No amount of penalty in prison, whatever, can give it back. It's been taken for good.
for good forever.
Kristi McVee (23:12)
What
it sounds like is you came to the realization that healing is an internal journey and it's an internal like forgiving, not forgiving, that's not even the word, it's an internal thing that only you can do for yourself. Would you agree?
Kerri Sloper (23:24)
Yeah,
Yes. OK, it was 2004. was big.
Kristi McVee (23:30)
wow, so 18
years you were thinking about it before you actually got it out into the world.
Kerri Sloper (23:35)
Yeah, which is
a long time. The others not so, they were after. So the first book came out and then I wrote the questions.
Kristi McVee (23:45)
Yeah, and then you... β
And then you're on the roll. So then you thought, let's do this one. Let's do this one. Yeah. I've got more. I've my book came. It took two years and that's apparently very short for writing a book. Apparently books are can be a very long process. And but when I wrote my book, I did it in two years and and
then now I get ideas for more books and it's like, hang on a second. I don't have two years to write another book. I don't think it would take me as long. I think the first one is the hardest one. Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (24:18)
Yep. Yeah,
the others all flowed and really I knew, I knew the title and would let it mull in my mind and then when I actually wrote the poem, like for instance this one I wrote in 10 minutes. Yeah, so.
Kristi McVee (24:22)
and made it easier.
the cover up, yeah, right. So
with your books, and this is a question I think parents would wanna know, is what age do you think your books are appropriate for? I know that we talked about it briefly beforehand, but say for instance, the white canvas, which is all about how special children are and how they've got this blank canvas starting out and then, you
everything that happens can you know from that moment you know it's so it i gotta say i'm really impressed with how the words plus the the actual illustrations are so beautifully done like i must say they're really great they they definitely flow and they definitely have like they captured me so i've gotta i've gotta give you that credit because that's a really well done but
For instance, what age do you think the white canvas could be spoken to with children? And do you think that, so this is a two part question, and do you think that these books are appropriate for kids who haven't, both children who haven't been abused and then for children who have, like?
Kerri Sloper (25:35)
think as soon as you start talking to your children about child protective behaviours, which I think is good touching and bad touching, I think you can introduce the white canvas then. And that's just what I think.
Kristi McVee (25:49)
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, some of us in this space talking, because I, you know, I'm a body, I've been teaching body safety to my daughter since she was two years old. and I, nothing was off limits in our conversations because I saw when I went to work every day, the, know, that children are, you know, like children are abused in every.
every family type, part of the world, every culture, every religion, everywhere. And so for me, I didn't want my daughter to be blindsided by someone tricking her into something and to making her believe that, you know, whatever. So the what so I believe that you're right. think if you're talking body safety and you're teaching your kids about appropriate and inappropriate, safe and unsafe secrets and surprises and, you know, the correct terminology and
Kerri Sloper (26:28)
What's?
Kristi McVee (26:40)
all of the body autonomy and everything then you know the theme of the white canvas is about you know it's a story that can be relatable for any topic really. Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (26:51)
Yep, bullying, gender.
This one, when you mention all cultures. So this was my idea for this one was paper dolls. You remember when you fold the paper, you draw a doll and you cut it out.
Kristi McVee (26:58)
video.
Yep.
and then you colour all the different people in.
Kerri Sloper (27:11)
So
yes, so this is big me, healing little me, with all the children of the world.
Kristi McVee (27:16)
Yeah.
yeah with all different different
cultures beliefs everything yeah i can see that and that's really i think you're right like that i love that you did that that was on purpose i can tell
Kerri Sloper (27:23)
Yep, skin tones everything.
Yeah was. All of the illustrations
I thought of and put together and had her realise. Like there is another one. Let me see if I can find it, what it refers to.
This one.
Kristi McVee (27:48)
eye with the shadow of little u and big u.
Kerri Sloper (27:49)
So this is little me and
that's her hero. Like, do you know what I mean? Like her being big. So yeah, every illustration was in my mind. And then this one, of course, me being a detective.
Kristi McVee (27:53)
Yep. Yep. Standing up for yourself.
Yeah, the clues. Yeah. So with your other books, so that was the white canvas and then you've got the why inside the questions. That was the way you got the clues from. Again, this is about the why because you had so many questions inside and I'd imagine any child who goes through child sexual abuse is asking why me?
Kerri Sloper (28:08)
Yeah, the clothes.
Kristi McVee (28:27)
Any survivor or lived experience survivor or someone who's lived through this is thinking why me? Why? What did I do? Why would, why did this happen to me?
And that is that's all of these I think if you're a teacher or if you're a someone who works with children in this space, I think it would be the perfect kind of like what came to me is if you had a little group of kids or group of kids, you could read these books to them or they could read them and then they could go around and go and do some form of like, you know, what did you get? What was the message you were getting out of here? Because all of these have a message of hope at the end of it.
Kerri Sloper (29:03)
Yep.
I hadn't thought of that, but you're right.
Kristi McVee (29:04)
you know
all of them have a message of hope where they talk about you
that we can be safe, that we can be, they're all got that at the very end of it or that you've healed and that you can heal and stuff like that. So I think that's one of the best things about these books is yes, takes, yes, it's a hard and sad topic, but you've done a really good job of the things, of the ways that you have described it. So I think you did a really good job. Do you have any, you've said that these four,
books are it yeah the child book
Kerri Sloper (29:35)
Yeah, I think so for, I think if I write anything
else, like I've got a friend, like I could write from someone else's perspective. But in my healing journey, each message is separate. The white canvas is the overall thing. The questions are my questions. The price, well, that's ongoing. And yeah.
Kristi McVee (29:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, the
cost that it costs a child is what the price is about.
Kerri Sloper (30:02)
Yep. And the cover
up is basically to help parents of children forgive themselves. Because if you know that's, if you've become aware that that's going on in your family, like this one, I'm saying be a hero to your own children and other children, which is why the adults are there, again, from different cultures.
Kristi McVee (30:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (30:29)
You know, you have to forgive yourself and heal, to heal your child successfully, you have to forgive yourself too.
Kristi McVee (30:38)
Yeah, you can't hold just, well, I mean, look, I think a forgiveness is one of these things where you can't forgive, if you're not doing, if you're not standing in your integrity and doing the right things, for instance, and you're continuing to perpetuate that harm, then you can't forgive yourself, because you're gonna have to keep forgiving yourself along the way. So you've got to, obviously, if it's happening right now, you have to stop it. You can't allow it to continue.
Kerri Sloper (31:02)
Yeah, you stop it, which is why you become
a hero. ultimately, like that's why this is last. And I had to work through a lot of anger to get to the point of that book, to make it, to produce it in a way, because I've seen, even in my own family, people get stuck on being angry. And it doesn't hurt the perpetrator, it hurts you.
Kristi McVee (31:13)
Yeah, he said that.
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Thank
Kerri Sloper (31:31)
And that, but that's a big hurdle. And I think that is the final hurdle that abuse survivors have to come to some measure of to feel peace.
Kristi McVee (31:37)
Mmm.
Well, and you pointed it out that...
It's an internal thing that you have to do otherwise you're like it, you know, it's like and I've heard this saying before, know anger and anger is like taking a pill like a poisonous pill and expecting the other person to die. You know, it's like it can get it just takes over so much energy and space and time and I'm not saying, you know, they don't deserve to be held accountable or that they don't deserve to be you. You don't have the right to be angry, but at
Kerri Sloper (31:59)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (32:13)
point you're going to have to let go, hopefully you'll realise you have to let go of the anger otherwise it's poisoning you.
Kerri Sloper (32:19)
Yes,
that's my point. Not just for the victim, but the whole family, anyone who knows. And it's a hard thing to do. It's very hard and it took me a very long time.
Kristi McVee (32:32)
Yeah, when you spoke to your parents about it at like 27, did they, and obviously it made sense to your mum, she was like, now I understand, it makes so much sense. And you know that you've told your parents, did they ever come to any sort of like resolution with you or to like say sorry for not listening back then or did that not get an opportunity to have those conversations?
Kerri Sloper (32:51)
No,
not for a very, very, very long time because...
Because the person was close to the family, that was hard for them.
Kristi McVee (33:03)
even then at 27. Yeah, it's such a, it's such a tricky road to navigate, you know.
Kerri Sloper (33:05)
Yep. And so.
Yeah,
it is. And it was very difficult for them for long time. But I did, like, once the police got involved and, you know, a policeman was sent over from Victoria to come and interview me. And I gave one statement and then I gave the second statement. Each of them took six hours. was very long time. And then, yeah, so...
Kristi McVee (33:34)
Yeah, it's exhausting.
Kerri Sloper (33:40)
Yeah, it's been a really long, long road. And the funny thing is like, you have to be ready for each stage of your healing journey. And...
Kristi McVee (33:50)
Otherwise,
you're going to bypass it and keep spiraling until you're ready again.
Kerri Sloper (33:56)
And
I guess now, like when I've seen others, excuse me, when I've seen others, I can tell where they're at now because I've gone through that hard bit and I'm through the other side. Am I perfectly healed? Probably not. It'll be a lifelong pursuit, but I can see where they're at or where they're stuck.
but I can't make it, I can't hurry it up for them. But that's why I feel like my books can help the process, β especially if you get it to children young enough. I feel like it can help them overcome those stages in hopefully quicker, hopefully with some acceptance.
Kristi McVee (34:31)
Yes.
Yes, yeah. β
Kerri Sloper (34:49)
recognition.
Kristi McVee (34:50)
You just never know sometimes, like, I don't know about you, but sometimes I'll hear a song or I'll see something written or I'll see a meme or something, right? And it feels like it's literally speaking to me.
There's a certain song right now that I'm listening to that was suggested to me and it's like it's speaking to my soul and every time I listen to it I almost tear up. So you know, I think you writing those books, who knows which child has that read to them or reads it themselves or what adult or parent reads it for their child and then realises actually that's, it's speaking to them.
Kerri Sloper (35:28)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (35:29)
You just don't know. You just don't know what piece of art or music or whatever or poem or story will actually reach the person. And that's not for us to know, is it, when we create this stuff?
Kerri Sloper (35:39)
No, but that's
why I wrote them and why I don't, I mean I'm just, well I shouldn't say just, but I'm a musician, I'm a teacher, I'm a mother. I don't really know how to spread my message. I appreciate you giving me the time to help spread my message of hope and healing to others because that's really why I wrote them.
Kristi McVee (35:47)
you
Well, and it's already worked because you had that grandmother come up to you and she said, and another person, and the one thing I know from all of the time that I've been doing this, nearly 15 years of talking to victim survivors and people who have been through or had something happen to them is that the more we talk about it, the more we allow other people to have the courage to talk about it. there's something so powerful in that and there's something so amazing in that.
Again, like we talk about it and it's reducing the stigma, it's reducing the pain, it's reducing and it's helping the healing for more people than we realize.
Kerri Sloper (36:40)
Yeah, well that's what I think.
it can, I mean, it might be a slow burn, but that's fine. I know I've helped a lot of people. think I've, I think, I hope so because I think I've sold over 300 now and hopefully they'll get into the hands of anyone who needs it. I know the Victorian police have them in their sexual assault building.
Kristi McVee (36:48)
and you'll continue to. These books will be there forever.
people.
wow,
that's awesome.
Kerri Sloper (37:06)
β I'm
hopeful that, I've tried in Perth, but you know, some people look on someone who's been abused as a bit weird. No.
Kristi McVee (37:14)
β Well, they're not. have
their moments and we all have our moments. It matter what, you know, like it's not that you're weird. You've gone through something. I think one of the things, Kerry, is to just keep promoting, keep speaking, keep sharing. You know, I will be promoting these on my...
on my page and you know I will be sharing these and you know and and I get questions all the time I you know I've had questions from parents my daughter's going through you know these are some of the questions I've had my daughter's going through recovery from being abused and I don't know where what is there anything she can read is there anything that you can suggest and so I will now have this tool this this book these books to suggest because and if you're a parent out there I and you your child has been in through this or you've been through
this I would suggest getting these books just so that you've got something in your toolbox. So Carrie my last question for you was around you as you've got so much experience in this space because you're a parent, you're a musician, you're a teacher but you're also a survivor. What would you suggest because this podcast is for parents and for carers and for people who care about talking about this stuff with kids. What would your suggestion be to parents in you know how to obviously prevent child sexual abuse
but also how to support their kids in any abuse disclosure.
Kerri Sloper (38:34)
Trust
your instincts.
Children
You need to be able to communicate with your child and for them to feel safe enough to tell you and when they tell you, believe them and then try to put something in place to make them feel safe because I know when I told my parents, I minimised it first and I minimised it to protect them.
Kristi McVee (39:03)
Yeah, you knew thought you knew this person was close to them and you knew that it would hurt them So you were making it smaller than it was because you didn't want to hurt them
Kerri Sloper (39:11)
I didn't want my parents to feel like they were a failure.
Kristi McVee (39:15)
And that's you
at nine or five, know, between four and nine. Like this is your little person with big thoughts and big feelings. that's a adult thought, not a child thought, but that's what child sexual abuse does. It makes you grow up. It makes you be responsible for things that you shouldn't be responsible for.
Kerri Sloper (39:32)
Well, I also think that parts of you grow up and parts of you are stunted and don't grow up until you deal with it properly. And that's why in my books and in some of the pictures you'll see big me and little me. And big me helps little me heal. And...
Kristi McVee (39:39)
Yes.
I agree with you.
Yeah.
Kerri Sloper (39:53)
But that's the biggest thing. You have to believe them. And I also think teach your children good touching and bad touching, not good people. You know, when I grew up, it was all stranger danger. And something very interesting that happened to me when I was in grade two was I was walking to school with my twin sister and the school gave us the tools to deal with this. We were told there was a predator out.
Kristi McVee (40:03)
same even in the 80s.
Kerri Sloper (40:20)
that his car was orangey brown and that if he tried to approach us, we were to run away and tell an adult. Now the school told us that. They also told us to memorize the number plate. Now, as interestingly as that is, the perpetrator tried to pick up me and my twin sister. We were walking to school by ourselves and this man...
Kristi McVee (40:29)
β
goodness.
Kerri Sloper (40:46)
pulled up next to us, opened the window, beckoned with his arm, and wanted us to go over. Well, we kept walking. We turned a corner. We turned around and walked back. I don't know, I lost count of how many times we tried to give that guy the big hint that we weren't going anywhere near his car, and he persisted. But we were cute little blonde hair, blue-eyed girls who looked the same. And then he opened the car door.
Kristi McVee (41:04)
Yeah.
gosh.
Kerri Sloper (41:15)
And when he opened the car door, we were petrified. So we looked at each other. One of us memorized the letters. One of us memorized the numbers and I don't remember who. As soon as we had memorized that, we ran home to our mother, told her she called the police and they got him. So the trouble was we weren't protected even then.
Kristi McVee (41:33)
wow.
No.
And that is what they taught us back then is stranger danger and to watch out for these people. And they gave you the tools for that. But here we are. I mean, I remember my mum saying, don't take lollies from strangers. if you see a white van, whatever and all of the things. But you're right. This is the reason. You were seven years old getting that instruction. And we're scared to teach people or teach kids about safe and unsafe
Kerri Sloper (42:02)
Yep.
Kristi McVee (42:08)
safe, appropriate and inappropriate behaviors and tricky behaviors and stuff like that.
Kerri Sloper (42:11)
Yeah and that's what we need
to do more of is what's appropriate what's not good touching bad touching because I was already being abused then and yet I could well and I could I could say it about the stranger danger thing but I I couldn't say it about the other and which is
Kristi McVee (42:24)
and if you had have known different or if you had have had the opportunity.
Such
lost opportunities, right? Like so many lost opportunities and I don't know what would have happened back then when you were a little girl, you know, in the early 70s, being telling someone, you know, if you had have had the opportunity to tell someone that something was going on with this person, you know, hopefully someone would have spoken up at some stage if you had have got that opportunity.
Kerri Sloper (42:38)
Yep.
Yep and that's
why it's so important.
Kristi McVee (43:00)
So, so important. Well, Kerry, I'm going to ask you to just tell everyone how they find your books and how they find you because I highly recommend I've got some so many people I think this would help. So you're you're healing the child within on Instagram. Is that right?
Kerri Sloper (43:17)
Yes, that's my page.
You can join that and watch my book launches where I've given a speech at each one and where I've had other advocates. I've got Sharice Hay who's brilliant. She is a psychologist who's an advocate. She's spoken in Canberra as well. And then my books are available on Amazon. You just Google my name and it's Kerry with an I. Yes.
Kristi McVee (43:34)
Yeah.
you
Kerry Slobar with an I. I'll put all of the links into the
show notes. And all four books, so there's The White Canvas, The Why Inside, The Price, and The Cover Up. And these books are all perfect. I mean, the cover up is probably a little bit for more an older, know, primary school age, but I think you're right. I think that you could easily use these to help children process their own abuse or even, you know, to teach children about the fact that
Kerri Sloper (43:52)
Yeah.
Yep.
Kristi McVee (44:08)
people hide in plain sight and as kids we wear a mask or as people we wear a mask so that we can we can be safe so thank you so much Kerry for coming on the conversations with Christie podcast and for writing these books β you're welcome and thank you for writing these books because we need more books like this and yeah well done
Kerri Sloper (44:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
And thanks for having me.
Thank
you.
Kristi McVee (44:32)
Thank you for listening to this episode. Education empowers children, strengthens parents and most importantly, prevents abuse. That's why I do this work and that's why you're here. So truly thank you. If you'd like more support or resources, follow me on social media under Kristi McVee or cape-au where you'll find all the links in the show notes. You can also grab a copy of my book, Operation KidSafe, a detective's guide to child abuse prevention at www.cape-au.com
where you'll find further resources and self-paced courses to help you in this journey of protecting your kids. If you found this episode valuable, please take a moment to leave a review or share it with someone important. Your support helps more parents and caregivers discover this important information and take action to keep kids safe. Check the show notes for extra links and support. And most importantly, thank you for showing up and taking action to protect your kids. See you next time.
