Ep2 S4 Noni Bogart
===
Kristi: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the CAPE podcast. CAPE standing for the Child Abuse Prevention and Education podcast. My name is Christy McVie and I am an ex West Australian police officer who spent 10 years with the police where I was trained as a specialist child interviewer and a child abuse detective. This podcast is all about sharing what I learned, saw and knew whilst investigating child sexual abuse in the police force.
It is also about sharing the knowledge that I gained in that time that helped me with my own parenting of my then two year old daughter. My mission is to help share my knowledge and to help you in your role as parents to keep your kids safe along with guest experts in the field of child abuse prevention and education, both in person and online.
Thank you so much for joining in on the fight to prevent child sexual abuse. Your kids will thank you for it.
I'm really excited to be speaking with super mom Noni and I'll get Noni to [00:01:00] explain a little bit about her situation in a minute, but I just wanted to also. Before we got going, , just give a content warning. We're going to be talking about, , child sexual abuse today.
And,, in, and with this podcast, the CAPE podcast, it's about child abuse prevention and education. And through, , you know, through Survivors and victims, survivors stories we can, we can learn a lot. And today we're going to be talking to Noni, who is a mom of a, an amazing little boy. , so Noni, you and I have been talking a little while, well since June last year, because, , Noni reached out on Tik Tok because I shared, Noni's little story or what happened with Noni's little boy over in, , over in the Australian capital territory where, uh, a person who should have been trustworthy and should have been able to be looking after her little boy was actually not doing the right thing.
So I'll get Noni to explain that. But we, [00:02:00] You reached out and said, that's my little boy, because I was talking about, um, I was talking about the court case where you actually highlighted how much protective behaviors was the key to him speaking up. So thank you so much for being on today. And, , Noni, I'll let you explain what happened.
Noni: Yeah, sure. , so my son was attending daycare full time and he was four years old at the time and he was about to turn five. And over a three month period, his daycare teacher was indecently assaulting him. And one, I had been teaching him protective education and body safety for about a year prior. So, I kicked him up one afternoon and he disclosed to me in the car that his teacher had touched him on the penis.
And it sort of, yeah, rolled from there of, , yeah, disclosure, but it was a, I feel like it's an important story to share with everybody because teaching him protective behaviors and body safety is what saved [00:03:00] him from his abuse getting worse. It didn't prevent it, but yeah, it saved him from, and saved all his friends as well from being abused because in the end, um, two other children had been indecently assaulted as well.
Kristi: Yeah, and this is, you know, protected behaviours educators and people like myself who teach body safety, who talk about body safety. This is exactly what we're talking about and why we talk about it so much is because it might not, It might not stop someone harming your child, but it will reduce the impact and the length, longevity and the length of that impact because a child who knows this stuff is going to speak up quicker.
They're going to have the language to be able to tell a safer adult and they're going to understand who that is. So, well done, well done. So, how did you get started in teaching protective education? Like, where did that come, where, did you know about it before then or? No,
Noni: um, it was just trial and error. I didn't teach it to my [00:04:00] children, to my older, , girls.
And there was an incident with them. And I. Didn't even know anything about body safety in that. , so when they were getting counseling, the counselor was teaching them body safety and I was learning as well. So I made sure with my son that I was going to teach him everything. So nothing could happen to him.
But at the end of the day, you can put all these protections in place and everything to make sure that no one touches your child, but some things are just out of control and we just can't, um, you just don't see it coming. So, and that's another good thing is that, yeah, you can have no vulnerabilities and your child can still be harmed.
Kristi: Oh, exactly. And unfortunately, there's always people out there like this person who harmed your son, um, who are going to, who, who have, their motivation is bigger than your child's safety. Their motivation to harm children is bigger than anything that they do. We can put in place unless we put them in a [00:05:00] bubble.
Noni: Um, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Kristi: So the, the cool thing about that is, is that obviously, you know, sad to hear about your, your older children, but you know, the fact that you were able to put something in place and, and, and it reduced the harm to your little boy.
Noni: Yeah, yeah, exactly. , there was one thing I sort of clicked on, um, I've been trying to understand why my child was, , groomed differently to the other children.
And I do believe that there was more children involved, but we We might not never
Kristi: know.
Noni: But because my son knew what was happening to him was wrong, I think that the perpetrator could pick up on him and was, um, yeah, just not treating him the same, I guess. He was being more horrible to, to my son. I think that's, that's, that's Because I think he picked up like he was going to, , out him pretty much.
So, well,
Kristi: well, it's quite, it's quite common for, uh, perpetrators or offenders who know a child who is confident, who, [00:06:00] who knows their bodily rights, who knows that it's wrong. They're going to bully them to make them isolated from their friends. They're people who trust them. They quite often, when they're grooming the adults in the area or the adults in the with those kids, they'll talk badly about that child.
Um, it happens a lot like that. So that makes sense. , that, yeah, he was
Noni: definitely, yeah, he was definitely isolated and, , yeah, it was very, it was very sad how he'd done it. But
Kristi: so on the day, on the day that he, , You know, disclosed to you about him touching him on his penis, Tom, walk me through that day because I know from conversations we've had, you actually took some action that was quite, uh, was used in court.
So,
Noni: yeah, so, , I acted immediately. So as soon as my son told me what had happened, um, I was sort of putting him in the car. And I said, hold on a minute, because I could tell he was trying to tell me something important. And then I went and got him to the front seat and I turned [00:07:00] around and I could just sense that he was going to tell, like something, I don't know, maybe instinct told me something was coming.
So I pulled my, , other phone out and it was like a, one of those Samsung flips. And I had it like sitting like this. But like sort of kid. And so he didn't know I was recording and, , yeah, press record. And I said, so what did you need to tell me? Like, what were you just saying? And he started talking about how, um, Ali had touched him on the penis and that, , you know, it makes me feel sad.
And I was trying not to, I knew how to ask questions was important because I didn't want to put words into his mouth. So I sort of gave him a few options just so I could tell where it took place. Yeah. But, um, recording that actually was used, , in the trial, so I was, I was, I was, , and I was quite thankful that we had that.
And then also I got straight out of the car and I went back into the daycare and I spoke to management. Um, and that was hard because I don't like sort of confrontation type stuff. It's really awkward and it's a very serious topic and [00:08:00] something serious you're accused of. , but. I just had to trust what my son was saying.
He wouldn't, and I also, he had other signs of sexual abuse. , well, but I didn't know it was sexual abuse, but now that he said it, I was like, okay, yeah, he's definitely saying like, he's definitely telling the truth. He's got all these things that have been going on that we couldn't pinpoint. So some of the things that was happening to him was, , He was starting to go to the toilet quite a lot, like about four to six times an hour.
Um, he was having nightmares. , he was grinding his teeth at night, which was like unusual. Um, he was refusing to go to daycare when before he was happy to go. Yeah. , and what else? Yeah, he was, he's always had a bad day when I pick him up and ask him how his day was. He was always. Yeah. So
Kristi: that's how you were able to pinpoint like, it had been like for about three months that he'd been a
Noni: Yeah.
So, , he started frequently urinating quite heavily one day and I was like, oh, he's [00:09:00] got a UTI. So I took him to the doctor. So that pinpoint the day it happened or around that day.
Kristi: Yeah.
Noni: So that's how I can pinpoint when it, when it sort of started. Thank you. Um, and I mean, he's frequency to urinate pops up like it went away after about six months and then it popped up again at the trial.
So things that trigger him, yeah, we'll make him do it again. And it's very hard and frustrating because when you're paying a lot and you're not, you know, drinking enough fluid, it's just got to roll on effect with your body functions. So.
Kristi: Yeah, and sometimes, you know, you've just described like, , behavioral stuff that comes up when people, you know, frequency to urinate is a stress symptom.
It can be also a UTI symptom. Um, and then, you know, all of these things where he was obviously very, like, upset, but he didn't have, you know, he's four years old. So it's really hard for four year olds to process and know what's going on to be able to articulate it and share [00:10:00] it. But, you know, that was three months versus it could have been a lot longer.
Noni: Longer. Yeah, I always see it as he was, yeah, just, yeah, over that three months before he told me he was processing, like, all my friends are having fun though when that's happening. So why isn't, why, why am I feeling different for? Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah,
Kristi: but he's actually a little hero because he rescued and saved a lot more kids because that person could have been
Noni: Yeah, he, he definitely stopped, , the abuse from happening to the other kids and the other kids actually didn't know it was happening to them.
They thought it was a fun game. , But yeah, the, I think the most, the hardest thing about it all was that I know that there was, I don't know fully that there was, there was other victims. But I definitely knew this would have been.
Kristi: Yeah.
Noni: Yeah. And I got to, so the daycare had a CCTV footage. Um, so I was able to see 20 minutes of it.
Um, but that [00:11:00] was one of my main things. A lot of people want CCTV in childcare centers, which is great, but there needs to be policies around that where. Yeah. , they're not allowed to delete footage and there's not that. And I had the daycare center deleted footage and deleted evidence pretty much, , and just gave the police a 20 minute clip.
Wow. And they actually were the ones that were groomed. They were the ones that didn't know how to recognize abuse in children and that sort of thing. So who, and they were the ones that decided what footage was good and not, and not good, you know? That's not
Kristi: okay.
Noni: Absolutely madness. And, , when the guy was, um, arrested, they ended up selling their business.
So another business took over. So,, No ombudsman, nothing, no investigation was done because a new business took over and they then washed their hands of it, nothing to do with it. So I feel like we're screwed over with having people held [00:12:00] accountable in that sense.
Kristi: Yeah. And do you know, in previous, , you know, in my previous history as a detective, I've charged people with, with deleting CCTV footage for things like, , sexual assault or murder or, you know, like those sorts of really, or serious injury, you know, nightclubs are notorious for that stuff, um, you know, or, or licensed premises.
And there is legislation there for, you know, to charge someone with deleting CCTV footage. So, you know, I think that, , you're right. Like there has to be some sort of Policy procedure, um, legislation where, you know, as a, as a daycare center or, or whatever, you can't delete footage because, you know, it's different if the footage just, you know, there's no storage space and it has to refresh, you know, after two months or whatever, that's different.
But, you know, if you purposely go and destroy evidence, that's a problem.
Noni: And I said, like, yeah, it's got like a [00:13:00] two week loop, so it starts recording over it after two weeks, but I had actually gone in that day, so they could have saved it all. And they didn't. And they could have at least saved two weeks worth.
Kristi: Yeah, definitely, because it had been happening, well, it had been happening recently, so therefore there was at least two weeks worth that police could have used. , so since, since all of this happened, I mean, you're the perpetrator, the offender that, , sexually abused your little boy. Uh, you, so you went to trial, he was found guilty.
That's how we found out about you. That's how I found out about you because I saw a, a beautiful article where you actually gave, gave a, , an interview and said protective behaviors was what was the difference. And that's how I saw it
Noni: as my, yeah. I saw it as my opportunity to do something, to get like,
Kristi: yeah, to
Noni: get something out there.
It was my, my part that I was trying to do like, yeah. So
Kristi: you're amazing opportunity hadn't
Noni: put in there and said, yeah, [00:14:00] it's what safety and teaching and protective.
Kristi: So, so good. Um, but since then, obviously this offender has been, , convicted, he's been sentenced. What was the sentence that he got?
Noni: So he got 18 months in jail with 15 months, I don't know what you call it, where he can get out at 15 months parole.
I don't know.
Kristi: Yeah.
Noni: , yeah. So yeah, he got 18 months in total. Um, Considering that it was just for one day, he was only being trialed for one, for that afternoon when I picked my son up, one incident, yeah, , everyone was thinking he would just get like a good behavior bond. So the 80 months actually, it sounds crap, but it is a good result in the end.
, but of course, yeah, if, when I consider, yeah, the three months that it happened, that's not obviously a good result in that sense.
Kristi: No, and I mean, the, the hard thing is, is that the penalties on average are so low for the, these [00:15:00] offences that it's actually, sad that we think 18 months is a good sentence.
Yeah. Because that's it, because I've
Noni: like been left with all the consequences type things. So to clean up and
Kristi: yeah, totally. And you've since then. Since then, and since obviously having done the interview and then speaking with people like myself and, and a good friend, Hollyann, who you, um, you definitely, she was part of the process of teaching your young fella, , protective education, wasn't he?
Because you actually used her resources and she's been on our podcast. So I thought I'd mention her.
Noni: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I found Holly on YouTube and I actually found some old clips and that I was watching. But yeah, I found like the free ones that she puts up and then she actually has like a parenting course that you can do as well.
And I even now I go back and listen to the parenting course. 'cause you always got access to it.
Kristi: Yeah.
Noni: , so when you made a [00:16:00] comment, um, on the TikTok, I said, yeah. I said, yeah, Holly, Holly, Holly had taught me. Yeah.
Kristi: Well, Holly Ann was my first podcast, , episode. So we talked about protective education, , and it's my most listened to episode, funny enough, um, on, on this podcast.
So, you know, anyone who's listening, please go back and listen to Holly Ann's podcast and know that there is resources out there for any parent of any child who's, you know, obviously, uh, wanting to learn more about this because As we know, this is actually a good outcome, like from my detective background, what happened with your little fella is actually a fairly good outcome, because there was other kids that were involved in this daycare incident, like with that three month period, where they were found not guilty, he was found not guilty of their incident.
Because they weren't able to articulate it. They weren't able to share what happened. So
Noni: there's two, he's going for a [00:17:00] retrial with two of them, , in June this year.
Kristi: Right.
Noni: , cause the jury were sort of, , they were like 50, 50 on deciding. Um, so yeah, it goes back to a retrial, but yeah, pretty much the important fact was because my son had told me on the day it happened.
, it was easy. Yeah. It was easier to gather the information, like gather to gather evidence. Um, I think that's a lot, like, yeah, we got the good result.
Kristi: Since now, since all of this happened. Got a guilty result. Yeah, since all of this has happened, you've been spending your time educating parents on places like TikTok, etc.
Haven't you?
Noni: Yeah, I'm definitely not the person to do TikTok videos, but I feel like I have to because no one else is going to do it. And it's so important. And I've just, I just know that there's other kids out there who have been possibly abused and they'll never know and their parents will never know.
And I need to put a stop to that. And the more I [00:18:00] keep learning, the more I keep teaching, , the more I keep hearing. About, you know, stuff that's going on where children are being abused and they don't know that they're being abused and it just makes me want to push it more onto parents to teach their children, , yeah, body safety.
So I've been making up heaps of videos and, , my kids laugh at me, , cause sometimes I get stressed out. But, , yeah. Well, I think that's amazing. But yeah, I, um, yeah, I just have to do something and I know that it works. So I've got a really good example to use.
Kristi: Yeah. To
Noni: show that it does work. So why not?
Kristi: Yeah. Totally. And it's, and it does work. We know this. I know this. I've seen it. You've seen it now. You've got. So just stepping back from all of that, what are some of the things that you think, if you could look at young Noni or younger Noni before all of this. What are some of the things that you would like to share with other parents of young children or other parents who [00:19:00] have young children?
What are some of the things you want them to know?
Noni: Um, I'd like them to know that they need to trust their gut and listen to their instinct. If your child can't articulate, That they don't want to go somewhere, but they won't give you a reason why, or whatever, like just listen to them no matter what. , cause you know, children can pick up on that sort of stuff.
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's probably one of the main things. Um, and yeah, teaching, yeah. All your body safety stuff.
Kristi: Yeah.
Noni: I, even, , with secrets, , that was one of the things I miss with my children, with my eldest. Um, it took her five years to tell me. And I, and it was, of course, It was a secret that she was told to keep, otherwise she'd be hurt.
, but me and her have a really close bond, a really close relationship, so I thought that she would tell me anything. Um, so that was a big shock and I was like, damn, that's one thing I need to make sure to, you know, teach parents is how secrets like work and that sort of thing. [00:20:00] You know, someone could threaten you, someone could, I mean, someone could threaten the child or, um, you know, they could bribe the child.
There's heaps of ways that they get to. You know, get kids to keep secrets. Um, so yeah, you could have the most amazing bond with your child and still they'll keep a big secret like that from you. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Really good ones.
Kristi: Yeah, really good ones. Yeah. And, and you're right, it's a hundred percent. And you mentioned before about grooming how he, how this offender groomed the, the coworkers and the people around him.
What kind of things was he doing when he was grooming the coworkers and, and stuff like that?
Noni: , so at the trial, , the daycare workers got up and had to give evidence and they said like how he's so amazing with the children. And I think one of them said like, Oh, you know, the kids treat him like a toy.
Um, so he really put on, , a good show, but One thing that bothered me and, you know, I've done the same when I first saw him, I got my, , early warning [00:21:00] signs, I guess you'd call them, where I thought something was odd about him and I, I don't know, it's like, should I have listened to him or would I have looked like I was being crazy or over the top?
So, I'm at a tug of war in that situation because it's a tricky one, I guess, to.
Kristi: Yeah.
Noni: Know what to do.
Kristi: Well, cause quite often, quite often when you have your early warning signs, um, kicking, you don't actually have the physical or the, the visual evidence to know why you're kind of going off like a, it's a, like a pre, you know, it's a pre warning.
And so until something happens, you go, that's why it's like, yeah, it's not, is a great thing. But,, I agree with you sometimes your early warning signs. Um, but it's really important that we learn to listen to them and we listen to our own plus our kids, , because, you know, early warning signs can be just that one thing that's going to save you from, from harm or save your [00:22:00] children from harm.
And so with that, with those things that they said about him, like he was so great with kids and they treated him like a toy. Do you think that that was? To me, that was. Yeah, go on. You tell me.
Noni: Oh, to me, to me, that was odd that they were saying that because when I did see him, like if I dropped my son off to in the mornings, he was never interacting with the kids.
He was standing always to the back of the room type thing. And I don't know, it just was weird. He wasn't doing what the other, you know, carers were doing with like interacting, welcoming like them into the classroom and that. So I never saw that fun side that the teachers were saying. So yeah, that's why I thought that was.
That was an odd thing.
Kristi: Yeah. And, and this is a thing like. Offenders have to wear different masks. They have to wear different faces because what they are to you would be someone different to the kids, someone different to the workers. And what we've got to [00:23:00] realize is that, um, if something seems wrong, Or something's not okay, we need to like speak up, you know, inappropriate and appropriate is one of the words that or one of the things that I tell people is calling out inappropriate behavior and identifying appropriate behavior.
Noni: Yeah, that's what a lot of the teachers weren't doing. And I think because that childcare teachers, they are younger. So they probably don't feel like they can tell or speak out. Um, But yeah, I find that that possibly has been what's happened. Yeah.
Kristi: Well, I think, , you know, it's as sad as it is that, , your little fella had this incident happen to him, a lot of good has come from it because, um, and you know, it's really hard sometimes.
Well, I really hope that, and I think with such a, uh, a protective, supportive, caring mum like yourself, I mean, you've got him in seeing the right people, you [00:24:00] listened to him, you believed him, you did everything that you could have done in the moment. I think that that would have minimised his harm. Overall, and his trauma in later life.
I think you've done enough to help make that better.
Noni: Yeah, they say when something like that happens, if you believe straight away, and if you take action straight away, that's actually plays a huge part in the healing of the child. So, and which is true, like, as soon as you're believed by somebody, like, Yeah.
Kristi: And, and that, and that safe adult that you've told, that adult you've told, if they listen to you, believe you, and then they, you know, you move, you can move forward because you know that you've got, someone's got you. So you're being protected and looked after. Um, I think you did everything right in the moment.
Noni: Yeah. One of the things that I was thinking that I didn't know prior, um, even prior to having my [00:25:00] son was vulnerabilities. I didn't know, and I wish someone would have told me, , you know, once you get divorced, once there's step families in place, when there's, you know, domestic violence, when there's all these vulnerabilities, um, that actually can put your child more at risk of being sexually abused.
And that's one of the things I wish I would have known. I would have been a lot more careful, a lot more, um, Yeah, I wouldn't know.
Kristi: On alert sort of thing.
Noni: Yeah, yeah. So that's probably one of the other things I would want parents to know too.
Kristi: Yeah, and that's a good point because I write about that in my book and I've, I speak about this stuff is that the minute, yeah, the minute you introduce obviously step families and, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I grew up in a step family and I grew up with other family, but, you know, when you introducing multiple new people into a child's life and you have. There is domestic violence where you might not have that, uh, you know, you might not be as[00:26:00]
I mean, this is why we're talking about it because these are the things that we need to just have an awareness around
Noni: and yeah, and especially when, like me personally, I've never experienced sexual abuse as a child. So I didn't have a clue that I needed to teach it like. Yeah, the only thing I remember teaching my children was that no one's allowed to touch their private area.
That that was all I taught my ELs. Um, so I've been a focusing a lot on, um, parents that have never been affected by it because they're the ones that probably aren't gonna listen and need to like really get their attention. So I've been trying to, when I do my videos on TikTok, I've been thinking about what did I want to know or what should I, you know,
Kristi: what you should
Noni: have known.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're a hundred percent right.
Kristi: Yeah. You're a hundred percent right. Because those are the parents who don't think it exists as much as it does. And we know now, you know, one in three girls, one in five boys. So, you know, it's, it's quite, [00:27:00] It's quite prevalent.
Noni: Yeah. And also I've started to find the more I talk, um, is with other parents, there's a lot, a lot of peer on peer abuse as well. , yeah, I can think of so many schools and there's a lot of parents that think it doesn't even exist. I think I had one parent, I don't, I stay away from Facebook now because I don't like those ones.
Um, but they said to me that like, Oh, it's probably just like 15 year olds. Like when I was talking about peer on peer abuse. And it was just like what 15 year olds do, and I was like, well, actually, if that happened to a 15 year old, they're still a child, um, but no, yeah, a lot of people think it's just older teenager kids, but like, it's better or something, I don't know, but No, they, they justify it and minimise
Kristi: it.
So they justify it by saying kids just being kids and, you know, but we know, we know that 40, over 45 percent of all child sexual abuse is by another child. So, and, and we know [00:28:00] through some of the studies that are being done and it's a hard subject and a hard group to study because a lot of parents don't come forward and, and.
report it, if it's, especially if it's between their own children. , so there's a lot of sibling sexual abuse and stuff like that. And I actually had a really interesting conversation with, , with Gloria Masters, who is over in New Zealand and she does a, um, she's got handing the shame back podcast. And she told, she, you know, she talks about sibling sexual abuse because it happens a lot.
She's
Noni: got two books out.
Kristi: Yeah. She's got a third coming out very shortly. Or is that coming out now? I've read one of those. Yeah. So Gloria was on my podcast earlier in the week, which will be coming out soon. So, you know, it's really interesting, um, that we have this perception and it is a perception that won't happen to my family.
It won't happen to my kids, not my family, not my children, but So that is what, that is why we're [00:29:00] doing the work we're doing.
Noni: And for the parents, I do say that, how are you to know that it's not going to happen? How do you know it's not already happened? If you haven't taught your child body safety, then it could possibly have happened to them and they don't know what's wrong.
And yeah, that's one of the other things as well. So you
Kristi: might
Noni: not even, even if they do know, you know, they might not even disclose to years later. So. Yeah. Perfect.
Kristi: Yeah. For
Noni: the parents that say, you know, it would never happen to, you know, my kids or whatever, like, it, it could have, you just might not know now, like, it's a silly way of thinking.
Kristi: You and I both know the impacts of child sexual abuse have a lasting effect on the child's development and like, you know, especially if it's not, if the person who they first tell, or if they try to tell someone and then, and they're not, you know, believed or when their disclosure, um, and then not, you know, given that validation of belief.
[00:30:00] It has lasting effects. It can create ongoing problems with addiction, suicide, self harm, mental health. We know now through studies that victims of child sexual abuse have a higher rate of death in middle age because of the fact that there's key factors that they, they have that, especially, but the way we can fix and harm, not fix, but the way we can reduce it, reduce the harm to them and stop it before it gets worse.
And believe our kids, it's going to have a massive impact. And you've done that with your little fellow and, and obviously with your older kids as well. So my last question to you, and I didn't give you a warning, so I apologize. And you might've already answered this. So if people knew what I knew when I was a police officer, that's why I wrote my book.
If people knew what I knew, they would do things differently. What do you want parents to know from your [00:31:00] experience? So that they can do things differently. Um,
Noni: just teaching your child body safety from the age of three. And if you don't know how to do that, , there's heaps of books out there. Children's books that you can read.
Um, safe for kids. , Holly has,, books. They're like pre made lessons. So yeah, I would. If anything, I want your parents know to teach body safety. So there's a good, at least a minimum of five things to teach your child when it comes to body safety. And we just need to make sure that we teach them this.
Kristi: Um,
Noni: it's the only way that we can protect them or try to protect them. Yeah.
Kristi: It's our job too, isn't it? It's our job. Yeah,
Noni: it is our job and no one else is going to do it for you. I know that I'm struggling to push it into schools and daycares at the moment to get schools and daycares just don't teach it.
Um, they might touch on it here and there, but they don't have like external programs that teach it. [00:32:00] Yeah, so they're not going to teach it, who's going to teach them, it's up to the parent at the day to teach their child that, so, and there's so many resources out there, definitely.
Kristi: And I think one last thought from that, what you just said is, is we don't give, we don't have our children, we don't give birth to our children with the explicit, Like when, when they're tiny little babies, we, we look at them and we, we want to protect them.
They're so beautiful. We're like in awe of them. And I know that parenting is really difficult. I've, you know, we've all struggled with our parenting, with having babies because, and you know, they don't stay babies forever, but it is our one duty in their life is to provide them the tools to be able to help grow up into, um, adults and protect themselves from the world that we live in.
And it is. It is out there, so it's really important. Yeah, I mean,
Noni: I think even after disclosure, I still had to, for a year and a half or so, I still had to, you know, [00:33:00] protect my child. I still had to sort of, , advocate for him and it's, , it's not, it's not a straightforward process. Um, there's a lot of people along the way that I've had to.
Like, I've had to push to get this guilty verdict. , so yeah, there's a lot of people who won't take this seriously. So there's a lot of hurdles that we still have to, um, accomplish, I guess. Yeah. Teaching our children body safety and that sort of
Kristi: thing. You can't just leave it up to someone else. It's up to you as their parent to make it happen and whatever that takes sort of thing.
And I applaud you because a lot of people don't have that strength and that, and that thought process and that, and it requires a level of calmness because you have to be calm in all of this as well.
Noni: Yeah. I've got a pretty good poker face sometimes. , But, but inside I'm like, Oh, but,, yeah, I mean, even things like, um, it went three weeks after the disclosure that I thought that the place had been [00:34:00] called and they hadn't been called.
So things like that. , I ended up having to harass everybody to, to get someone to talk to my son and take his statement. So, yeah, just doing those. Doing that with, , yeah.
Kristi: That's insane to me. Insane. , because it's a mandatory report, but that's probably a whole nother, I think I'll have to do a episode of my podcast of what should happen when you report something like this, or when you're, you know, what steps should happen and what you can do to ensure they happen.
Because the one thing I've found since leaving the police, Is that a lot of people don't realize exactly what's meant to happen in an investigation.
Noni: Yeah. I mean, like I thought I knew everything. Um, but when it happens, you go into like, you know, you've got, you, you have to handle your son. Like I had to handle my son and what was going on.
I was processing it too. And I just. Put my trust into the daycare that they would call the police and they would handle everything properly. , but they didn't have my son's best [00:35:00] interest at heart. They had their business's interest at heart. , and yeah, that's why I'm lucky. But if it would, I always say like, if it would have been anyone else, maybe they wouldn't have been so persistent or, um, yeah, yeah.
That type of thing.
Kristi: Well done. I'm just gonna, I'm applauding you right now because you did everything right that, that your son required in the time and I hope listeners listening, um, first of all, I hope you never ever have to go and report or just, you know, if your child discloses, I hope that it never happens to your child, but know that, you know, You have a right to speak up.
You have a right to push. You have a right to ask what's going on. You have a right to tell police that you want to, you know, to ask police what they're doing or what they're, you know, and request things. You have a right. They're there to work for you. Not, um, you know, and, and unfortunately, you know, we know that sometimes it's easier to not do the hard work and push and push and push.
And, I'm not saying all police and detectives are like that, but you know, you just [00:36:00] have to get the, the, the one person who wasn't feeling it on the day, , yeah, so it's okay to keep pushing and asking. And, um, I wish that's what one thing I want to, I want to share at the end of this. So how can people follow you on TikTok, , or find out more on what you're sharing?
Noni: Um, my name's Remy Fletcher on TikTok, and I've got like videos that I do, , and on my TikTok and my bio, I've got like links to a few, , websites that can help you find resources, to teach your child that, and, , I've also been doing, I want to get, , some policies and legislation change, so I've got like a change.
org petition. And, what was it called? I wrote it down somewhere.
Kristi: But yeah, it's your position to try and Is that for Australia? What?
Noni: Yeah, I'm The meeting up all education ministers are about to meet up [00:37:00] to discuss a review that came out that sort of backs up what I've been saying about how poorly the disclosure after disclosure, how it was managed.
Yeah. So if my education minister from the ACT takes this with her to say like the parent, these are parents, and there's a lot of parents that have signed it that represent each state. It's like, yeah, if we have all these parents supporting that we want better training, better, , checks in place, um, and yeah, for our children to be taught, , protective education, then I think that was sort of, it's a good opportunity to quickly do it now.
That's for sure.
Kristi: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. When does, when do they go to, when does it end?
Noni: I changed it. I can, I can give you the link anyway, and you can,
Kristi: Yeah, we'll add it to the show notes. Um, I don't have an end
Noni: date, but, Yeah, I'll give it to you. , there's no end date, but just, yeah, whenever they're meeting, I'm finding out whenever their meetings coming up and I'm going to get whatever signatures I've got that [00:38:00] time, but it should be in the next month or two.
Kristi: Okay, well, I'll definitely add it to my Instagram and my TikTok as well so that we can get as many parent signatures on there because, , unfortunately, you know, there is so many amazing, , you know, child, um, Educators, you know, teachers out there, childcare teachers and educators, but unfortunately, it's an industry that hasn't had a lot of, , it's got a big spotlight on it at the moment.
, you know, there's, there's a need for that right now, but it also needs a lot of, a lot more. Consideration as to how we keep kids safe in those environments, because these are really young and vulnerable children in those in those areas. So,
Noni: , yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, there's just no, , yeah, checks in place.
So it really, it's just crazy the review that came out. So hopefully we can get better things in place, even if it can be similar to what teachers have.
Kristi: Yeah, it's
Noni: at the end of the day, they are teachers as well.
Kristi: They are, yeah. They're [00:39:00] some of our children's first teachers, really. , thank you so much for chatting with me today.
And I'm so, again, I just want to, you know, commend you on everything you're doing, everything you've done, for advocating for your little fella, and for speaking up for all of the victims that are still out there that need someone like you in their corner making changes like you're doing. Um, so thank you so much.
And
Noni: no problem.
Kristi: I can't wait to, um, see what happens in the future for you.
Noni: Yeah, I've got heaps, heaps of ideas. Um, but yeah, I've got to pick one still.
Kristi: Alright, thank you.
Noni: Thanks for that. Bye.
Kristi: Thank you for listening to this podcast episode. Education empowers children and empowers parents and education prevents abuse. That is why I'm here and that is why you are here. So thank you. If you want any further information or support, follow me on social media, either under Christy McVie or [00:40:00] KAU social media accounts.
I'll put the links in the show notes. You can also purchase a signed copy of my book Operation Kids Safe via the [email protected]. Also, on my website is a free ebook titled 10 Tips to Keep Your Kids Safe from Abuse. and self paced courses for parents to help you in your journey of child abuse prevention.
Don't forget to join our free Facebook group called Operation KidSafe Parenting Group. Please see the show notes for any extra information, links and help should you be looking for extra support. Thank you once again for giving a shit about preventing child sexual abuse. See you next time.
