S2 Ep 5 Mel Watson
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Kristi: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the CAPE podcast. CAPE standing for the Child Abuse Prevention and Education podcast. My name is Christy McVie and I am an ex West Australian police officer who spent 10 years with the police where I was trained as a specialist child interviewer and a child abuse detective. This podcast is all about sharing what I learned, saw and knew whilst investigating child sexual abuse in the police force.
It is also about sharing the knowledge that I gained in that time that helped me with my own parenting of my then two year old daughter. My mission is to help share my knowledge and to help you in your role as parents to keep your kids safe along with guest experts in the field of child abuse prevention and education, both in person and online.
Thank you so much for joining in on the fight to prevent child sexual abuse. Your kids will thank you for it.
Hello and welcome back to the Cape podcast. I am really excited to be [00:01:00] talking to my friend Mel Watson. So, , Mel, I'll just let you know that, um, so many people I've met, I haven't met in person. And so I keep, interviewing people that I meet online because you're all so interesting and Mel's super interesting.
Not only is she a victim survivor and she advocates for child sexual abuse awareness and change, but she also is a ex prison guard who has, , Hands on experience, similar to mine with dealing with child sex offenders and what goes on in the court system, in the judicial system. And she also teaches and talks about that.
So I'm so lucky and grateful to speak with you. I know that we've both got very similar stories in regards to this stuff. So it feels, it feels good to talk to someone who understands what I know about this. So Mel, tell everyone a little bit about your story.
Mel: Okay, so I grew up in a [00:02:00] DV household, there was lots of domestic violence, um, had a lot of memories of police and ambulance and the whole street being outside of our house.
Um, unfortunately, due to that environment being really unsafe, I was sexually abused at the age of four. So this was from a family member and also my next door neighbor. Once my parents separated, , we unfortunately went through a very Like us kids went through the nasty custody battle, the alienation, being turned against the other parent.
I unfortunately lost a lot of years, , with one of my parents and I was at a pool when I was eight years old and there was an old man swimming behind me. , he had goggles on, he was under the water and he sexually abused me, , in a public pool. It was a very, very well known, very busy, , Like Paul, so I really believe that he was there to do just that , and unfortunately he left when I went to [00:03:00] tell the lifeguard, um, but I also had, so yeah, when I turned 13, I started getting really depressed.
I started rebelling really bad. I hadn't had any sort of guidance or anything, so I was doing drugs, I was going out, I was partying, I had a boyfriend who was 18 when I was 13, and I confided in a very close family friend about my abuse when I was younger. And unfortunately, they groomed me, and when I was 15, it turned into a sexual relationship, which made me suicidal at 18.
I had a baby after three months of meeting someone when I was 18, and then I couldn't get a job, and I became a prison officer. Because it was the only job that would take me. And that's when I saw how evil the world really is. And that's when I really started to see how many child predators are around.
Kristi: Wow. Wow. There's a, there's a lot to [00:04:00] unpack in all of that.
Mel: I couldn't even fit my whole story in this. Like that's, that's the short version.
Kristi: That's a very succinct, very to the point version of Mel's story, but
Mel: Mel Very to the point.
Kristi: Mel, first of all, uh, you know, like it's, it's so sad and it happens so often when young people are vulnerable, kids are vulnerable, when their parents are vulnerable, they become victims of abuse.
And we've seen that and we know that. So, you know, and it's so sad. There's so many parts to this, the parental alienation, the DV, the child sexual abuse, being abused at the pool. Like that, that in itself is, you know, is not as common as people think that's, that's how people think that abuse happens, but it usually happens with someone close to you, but it still manages to happen now and again.
So, yeah. You
Mel: know, I feel like we, we teach the stranger danger so much. [00:05:00] Um, and it does happen. Like it's, all of it happens.
Kristi: Yeah.
Mel: Yeah. But I have been through both of them. I've been through the family. The person that's known to me, and then also the stranger. So I think that it's just so good, like, for us to all focus on, like, we've had this chat, focus on signs and behaviours as opposed to someone being a stranger or someone being, you know, a male or being this, like, I think that's the most important one because it can happen anywhere with anyone.
Kristi: Exactly. I mean, at four, you don't really have a lot of control over who it's, it's really up to parents who, uh, who has access to your children. You don't have control as a four year old, nor do you have the language, nor do you have the skills to be able to, you know, identify that behavior. And so it's really important that parents are, you know, monitoring, supervising, checking, seeing.
But, you know. Moving on to your 13, when you were 13 and [00:06:00] 15, you know, did you understand what was going on back then? You know now, but do you, did you understand what was going on?
Mel: No, not at all. I, that was, it's, it's crazy because, you know, I was abused at a really young age and everyone would think, oh, you know, that would be the worst one for her.
But the worst one for me was when I was 15. So it happened when I was 13. And I'm going to explain this because this is probably a really good, um, point for parents to understand how grooming happens. So when I was 13, he was, , he was my dad's best friend and he was very close to our family. So he would, I would go to him for advice.
Like I looked at him like a big brother and he made that. Relationship, like he was there for me because he was there for my dad. So, , he would ring me like on my phone and he would give me advice about my boyfriend. He started talking to me about sex. He started talking to me, um, about his relationship with his wife.
So he was [00:07:00] married with kids and he would tell me things like, you know, she was crazy and she wouldn't have sex with him and just really degrading his relationship with her. But making himself the victim. So I started to feel sorry for him. And he, he targeted me because I was very vulnerable. , it wasn't a well known thing who I was back then.
I was very rebellious. I was known as the naughty, like crazy, like kid, um, or teenager. And he knew all of that about me, because that was all the stuff that I was opening up to him about, and eventually he, so it happened over like until I was 15, just the slow grooming, like building that relationship. And then when I turned 15, he threw the bait.
So he texted me something that was sexual, but if I rejected it, he could weasel his way out of it. If you know what I [00:08:00] mean, like he could work his way out of it to make it look innocent. Um, but unfortunately, because, , I was just, I've never had like, love, I've never had safety, and I fell for it, I guess, and , yeah, it got very, like, we were pretty much in a relationship.
He was telling me that when I turn 25 he's gonna, , get me pregnant and give me a baby, because he knew I always wanted a child, so. He's like, you know, you'll have, we'll have a secret relationship and all this stuff and he would say he would leave his wife. Um, and all, all while this was happening, we were having a very sexual relationship that was going on until I turned 18 actually.
That's when it all came out. , and that's what led me to becoming suicidal at that age.
Kristi: Yeah. Wow. So like for three years you had this. Very intense, very romantic, very what you thought was a secure relationship. You had this person who was love bombing the shit out of you, basically, and [00:09:00] making you feel I thought I was in love.
Yeah, exactly. And at that age with, and, you know, we know from our own experiences, from what we know now, that, you know, trauma, uh, you know, that lack of safe adult, lack of safe relationships, you, you are so vulnerable that it makes it so easy.
Mel: Absolutely. It does, because especially at that age when you're a teenager, that's the age when you start to rebel and you start to come away from your parents and you start to go to other people for advice.
And I think it's so easily, like, it's so easy for teenagers to be groomed because they are in that vulnerable state and if they have things that are going on with their parents or things that are going on at home and they don't have that relationship with them where it's safe and they can open up.
Kristi: Sure.
Mel: It's so easy for them to get caught up in that stuff. And when, when it's happening, you really don't know what's happening. Like I didn't know that I was groomed until I was [00:10:00] 27 years old and I'm 29. So this was only like two, three years ago.
Kristi: Yeah. Right. And
Mel: the way that, the way that I found out was I wrote on a blog.
Um, it's actually called the imperfect mom. You might've heard of it, but I wrote on this blog and I said my story and for years, I would tell people that I had an affair. Because when it came out, I got victim blamed. So, , I was blamed by everyone in the community because he was really well respected and he was loved and he was a, you know, amazing dad.
And I was victim blamed for that. I ended up hiding away from where I grew up. Um, but I just held onto all this shame for so long. And I would just tell people all the time, I had an affair when I was 15. I really want to write. like a letter to his wife. And when I wrote that blog, I had over 400 comments of people saying you were groomed.
Do you not see that? Like, this is not your fault. And I think that was the biggest thing. Like I finally got my validation and [00:11:00] I just, that changed everything for me. That made me realize like, and now that now working in this space and like knowing what I know, I look back on it and I'm like, it's literally the classic case of grooming.
Kristi: Yeah, 100%. And one of the reasons why I have recommended to parents and to families, like you need to be mindful of the relationships, your young people, especially teenagers have with adults, you need to be, you need to be supervising those relationships. because they quickly become what happened to you.
It quickly happens. And I don't, I reckon I've heard this similar stories hundreds and hundreds of times.
Mel: Yeah. Wow. It's so, it's so true though. You do like, people will say, Oh, you know, you're being overprotective. You're being a helicopter parent. But with me, like, it's not about, you know, stopping your kids from doing things.
It's about being aware of what they're doing. It's about being aware of who is around them, who is in their space, because once child [00:12:00] sexual abuse happens, that's it. That's trauma that lasts forever. So call me over protective. I would rather that.
Kristi: But that is that I I'm with you on that 100%. I've never had a problem with calling people's inappropriate behaviors out with calling someone inappropriate with saying, you know, and the language we use is really important because it, it pulls people up and makes them think about it.
Like, yeah, am I being inappropriate? I mean, some people, uh, naively or through, you know, the fact that it's what happened to them. So they don't understand that that behavior isn't, safe, but you know, like be by calling something safe or unsafe, inappropriate, appropriate, we actually, um, give people some, , you know, power to call out behaviors that aren't safe.
Mel: Yeah, and we should do that. We should, we're in, we're in a world at the moment where we can't call out anything and especially in relation to child sexual abuse. I feel like it's just [00:13:00] such a sensitive topic and it's so taboo, but we should be talking about it and we should be calling out people for their inappropriate behavior.
100%. Mm. So
Kristi: I guess. You know, you became a parent at 18, which is quite young, and you know, you're now 29, so you've got an 11 year old and, , plus, you know, you've,
Mel: I was pregnant at 18. Sorry. No, no. I was like 11. He's 9. No, I was, he's turning 10 this year. I was pregnant at 18, but I had him when I, yeah, I was like, that's not nothing, you know, I had him at 19.
Yeah. Yep. Okay.
Kristi: So yeah, so he's turning 10 and then, you know, you've, you've moved on and you've had more children and et cetera. Yeah. At the same time. Like what? And you said no one would give me a job because I'd never had a job before and I'd just been a parent So you went and became a prison guard of all things.
I mean seriously, because they take
Mel: anyone
Kristi: You say that? It's true
Mel: Christy, they take [00:14:00] anyone. It's not hard to get that job
Kristi: So I guess like even then did you understand what kind of grooming was happening or any of that stuff?
Cause I guess for you, uh, there's a difference. You thought it was an affair. You thought you were the, you know, you were the home wreckers, you know, and I've got inverted commas there because that's what people call, um, you didn't see it as child abuse.
Mel: That came from the, that came from the victim blaming for sure.
If, if I wasn't victim blamed and someone told me what was going on, I would have, you know, been able to put that together and I probably would have been less traumatized. Like I still would have been traumatized, but I would have had support and I would have been like, okay, this wasn't my fault. Like I need to take this off my shoulders, but because I didn't, I carried that for a very, very long time.
And I ended up with postnatal depression with my first, because I was just, I could not cope with. all the stuff that I was holding onto. Um, but I learned, so someone actually [00:15:00] asked me yesterday, they're like, did you, when you joined like correctives and you started working in the prisons, did you learn about grooming and did you know what it was then?
And I'm like, we actually learned about it in training, but I still didn't, I still was saying no, I had an affair. Um, because no one actually told me that. Do you know what I mean? Like, they didn't, like, in correctives, they're not, they didn't say, oh, you were grooms. Like, we were, we were learning what to look out for.
But when I finally had people tell me that, that's when I was like, oh my gosh, like, I've been carrying all this and I didn't even need to.
Kristi: Oh, and it, you know, we, we have, uh, you know, Survivors contact us all the time and talk about this stuff with us all the time because we're seen as people who are speaking out, so therefore we're a safe person to talk about it with.
And how many of those survivors say pretty much word for word the same things that you are saying. You carry that, you carry that guilt and shame and blame along with you until someone says it is not your fault. It was not your [00:16:00] fault.
Mel: Yeah.
Kristi: It's so
Mel: important that we
Kristi: give people support from day dot.
Mel: Absolutely. And people are always like, Oh, you know, what if we're falsely accusing someone? I would rather side with someone who has been sexually abused or even raped or whatever, then side with a potential person who like may have done this because at the end of the day, your opinion and your validation to the victim does not put that person away.
That's what, that's the justice system. That's what the justice system does. But we should be validating everyone who's gone through it. Like, you can still lend your support and not blame them. The victim blaming is, that's what really messes everyone up.
Kristi: Yeah, I've said the same thing. Yeah, I've said the same thing.
How you react when you're told that, when someone, when a survivor victim says to, says to you, Hey, I was sexually abused as a child, or I was sexually abused, your reaction can do more [00:17:00] damage than the actual abuse. Absolutely. And how you treat them afterwards.
Mel: And that's a very, um, that's a very common, like, resp like, when I speak to a lot of survivors who reach out to me, that's one of the things that they say, they say that, um, when they've disclosed someone has invalidated them, and it's usually someone really close to them, and had they validated them or just given them that support, it would have been a lot different for them.
Kristi: Yeah. So, you go off and you become a prison guard, what's the training like for that?
Mel: It's 10 weeks training, so it's pretty, look, without saying too much, it's very easy, um, you get a lot of help. And so you, you, you pretty much just do like essays, you learn stuff, you go into the jails and do practice, , like practice strip searches, practice cell searches, you get gassed in a shipping container, which [00:18:00] is not fun.
It feels like you're suffocating and there's like a sock in your throat. Um, You do a little bit of, like, you literally do, like, only a really little bit of combat sort of training and then you're a prison officer. You start your first day in, in prison and you have no idea what you're doing and the culture is you have to learn for yourself.
Kristi: Yeah.
Mel: So you pretty much are making mistakes. getting yourself in, like, getting yourself in an unsafe situation because you're not getting help. It's pretty much, it's like, go in and just do what you've been taught in swimming. Yeah, pretty much. I, I was actually speaking recently on a, on a podcast where I started on my first day and I was left in the whole wing with, and because I was in a male prison, so there was, Close to 200 males in this one wing.
And there was only two of us and the senior officer left me. I don't know where he went, but left me in that wing by myself [00:19:00] in the office. And I started getting harassed by all the inmates. They were asking me questions. They were just coming at me, like to the office door. And I started freaking out because I'm like, this is my first day.
Like what is happening? Why have I been left alone? And I had a sweeper. So I'm not sure if you know what that is, but a sweeper is pretty much An inmate who, like, no one can stand over them, they're tough, they will organize all the food, organize all the toilet paper for that wing, um, they get like a little bit more time out of the cell to arrange everything, so he actually came to the door at the office and he's like, Don't worry miss, like, no one's gonna harass you, and they left me alone, and this officer didn't come back for like half an hour.
Kristi: Wow. Oh my goodness. You poor thing.
Mel: I know. It traumatised me. I already knew very quickly, just seeing how, um, The culture was that I wasn't going to be in that job for very long. I ended up staying for nearly four years, but [00:20:00] it was four years too long.
Kristi: It's
Mel: not
Kristi: for the faint hearted, but policing prison guards, any, any of those like frontline sort of jobs are not the faint hearted.
So with regards to what you saw in the prisons and, and you mentioned at the very beginning that, you know, you, You got an inside look into just how many child sex offenders there are.
Mel: Yeah. So explain
Kristi: that.
Mel: Oh my gosh, there's so many. And because I worked, I was lucky enough to work at the prisons, but I mostly worked at a district court, so Downing Centre.
And I, the whole day, Christy, would literally just be filled with child sexual abuse cases of some kind.
Kristi: Yeah.
Mel: And, and I think that was a really big shock for me because I was. I've been through it and I know that they exist, but I was so naive to think how much this is happening and [00:21:00] how bad it was. So I would sit on child sexual abuse cases all day.
I would listen to the details and they were getting like, you know, I would take a drug dealer in and I'm not condoning this behavior, but I would take a drug dealer in. He'd get up to 20 years or something and then, you know, taken back to the cells and I would take a child predator up and he gets 14 months on parole.
That's Like, and that was really common. That was really, really common for them to get that, and I couldn't understand it. Like, when I first went in on my first court case, I was like, I was listening to the, like, what happened, and we were at sentencing, and I was like, oh, he's definitely gonna get a long time.
Then I hear, like, 14 months, and I'm like, what? Why? He sexually abused a child like it just it wasn't making sense and then you go to the prisons and they have their own wings so they don't mix everyone thinks that you know they get bashed in prison doesn't happen it's very very uncommon they have separate um areas there's no way for them to get together [00:22:00] and except all of them to this wing
Kristi: except all the child sex offenders get together and they talk about it
Mel: Absolutely.
This is, this is what I mean. They put them together and they all talk about what they've done and they get off over it. They teach each other stuff. They, it's just, it's, it's honestly a disaster. And then, and they don't serve that much time in there anyway. So they come out with all this information that they've learned from each other and they've all validated each other.
So they're like, you know, you're, you're, there's nothing wrong with us. Like that sort of ging each other up. And of course they're going to come out and continue.
Kristi: They've got a common, like, they've got a common interest, a common goal. Um, one of the things that I get asked all the time is, Oh, aren't they meant to be doing like rehabilitation, mandatory rehabilitation and stuff like that?
And in Western Australia, it's not mandatory. So, um, Yeah, so with regards to what you're talking about with having their own separate wing, [00:23:00] I know in our prison system here you have to, uh, admit guilt, so to be, go through the rehabilitation process in Western Australia, you have to, um, basically admit to the prisons that you're a, you are a child sex offender to go through the rehabilitation process, but you're in, you're in the main, um, section of the prison.
So if you admit that you're a child sex offender, you're going to get, yeah. So they don't have, unless, I think there's one, there's one prison where they have their own area because they're the ones who get, like, they've already been notified that high profile sex offenders, they get put in their own, you know, prison.
Solitary area. But in, like, for instance, my own regional prison, so in order for them to get the rehabilitation, they have to say, Hey, I'm a sex offender. And then everyone knows you're a sex offender, so you do get bashed. So they're not, yeah, so they're not going, they're not putting their hands up and saying, Hey, I'm a sex offender.
I want to be rehabilitated. [00:24:00] Uh, which is a flawed system. So, they're not being forced, and they're not being, you know, and they're not having to tell anyone that they're a sex offender unless by a chance it's in the news or it's massive, but then they sort of get put on their own because they don't want them to get bashed in prison.
So, um, it's a bit different over, I know it's different in other places, but that's what it, that's how it was the last time I looked, so.
Mel: I heard, no, I heard from someone, someone commented and said that they get bashed in prison. I think this was in Victoria. I don't know. Look, everywhere, like you said, has different rules in, in New South Wales.
Um, as soon as they come in to custody, they, , they have a label. So, child sex offenders get certain labels, and you basically have different processes with them, so when you're escorting them, , to anywhere, that has to make sure that they don't encounter anyone else. Um, they do have a rehabilitation program.
I, I'm not sure what the process is with that. I think that's [00:25:00] ordered by the judge, but I'm, again, not 100 percent sure, but not everyone is in it. And this program is It's a joke, Christy. It's honestly a joke. They have a music studio. No one else in the prison gets a music studio. Just them. Yeah. Because it's for their therapy.
Which is, there's so many other inmates that could benefit from a music studio, like you see a lot of um, you know, ex criminals now that are rappers that are putting all their stuff into music. Like. Yeah. This is something that would benefit so many other people in prison. But they throw all their resources at child predators.
Kristi: Yet they're only there for 14 months or 15, you know, or two years maximum. Yeah. They're not
Mel: there for long. They're not there for long at all. And because they're the most well behaved, they make their parole.
Kristi: Yeah, of course they're well behaved, because they're usually white collar, uh, you know, 40 something, sorry, I'm generalizing here.
Mel: No, it's, it's, no, it's, see, people will say that, [00:26:00] but once you have actually worked around them, and you've worked, and you, like, we both have worked around so many of them, it really is It's very common to see that. Um, a lot of them are so intelligent, so articulate. They're very, very, like, very kind, very nice.
But, but that's not who they are. That's, that's the character that they play to everyone. They're cunning, they're manipulative. But the way that they show to you, it's just like your friendly neighbor. Like a neighbor that you would just go and talk to and he's like, Oh, hey mate, how are you? How can I help you?
What can I do for you today? Is exactly how they talk to you.
Kristi: Yeah, yeah.
Mel: Yeah. And that's part of their grooming too. That's how they groom parents.
Kristi: Yeah, exactly. So what else? I mean, I'm sure people are fascinated with the whole prison guard and the stories that you have. What's one that you like to tell just to give an idea of like what your day was like and, and what you would do?
I mean, you'd already mentioned that you spent so [00:27:00] much time at district court and for anyone who's listening and doesn't understand the When a, when a person's charged, they go to magistrate's court and in magistrate's court, if it's a crime, it then gets punished. sent up to district court, which is the next level of court.
If it's a, um, what's the word I'm looking for? If it's, , just a simple crime, then it's going to be, you know, I'm talking traffic, traffic offenses, very low level drug, , possession, you know, some domestic violence, common assault, those sorts of things. They stay down in the magistrate's court and are dealt by a magistrate.
But when it goes up to district court, it's dealt with a jury, um, a jury A judge and a jury. And so you spent all your time being a prison guard watching over these cases and probably saw and heard so many things. I mean, they're very interesting cases to listen to. Sad, disgusting and horrible, but very interesting as well.
Wouldn't you, would you agree?
Mel: Yeah, no, I, I definitely can agree. I actually found myself getting quite triggered on a lot of them.
Kristi: Yeah, I bet. [00:28:00]
Mel: Um, there was one case that I will never forget. There's actually two cases and both of them are on Netflix.
Kristi: Um,
Mel: yeah. And they're both Catholic priests. So that was a very, very common one to see when I was working in the courts was there was a lot of Catholic priests.
And I think now that we've seen, , with the Royal commission that. Yeah, pretty much showed all the abuse in the Catholic Church, but, , those ones were horrendous because they were historical abuse cases. And I remember one of the victims, well, victim survivors, whatever he would like to refer, um, to himself as, but I saw him.
On the stand, he was crying, and he was probably in his late 40s, maybe around that age, and he was married with kids, and he was just saying how it's completely ruined his life, he's traumatized, like this, he's like a strong, you know, Like, your normal, like, man that you'd be like, Oh, like he's tough and that.
And he [00:29:00] was bawling his eyes out and he explained what this guy, this guy had done to him. And he was telling us actually how he ran away from, so he was in the boarding school with the priest. He ran away to the police and he told them what happened and they gave him a kick up the ass and took him straight back because they said a priest would never do that to you.
And that was back, God, I don't know what year it was, but it was a long time. It was probably in the eighties. I'll have to double check that one. But yeah, he was crying and everyone, like even I was getting emotional. Like I was, had like, my eyes were swelling, just listening to it. And then I take, like, we went for lunch.
I take the, the inmate out and he pretty much said to me, Oh, you know, the cookies here are so nice. And like, how's your day going? Like just. not affected by it at all. And I think that was really shocking for me to see, like, to hear all of that. And you have [00:30:00] no feelings or no sympathy, or you just don't take accountability in what you have done.
And I saw that so much with all of them. Like there's no remorse. People think, you know, there's, they're not sorry. I've never seen, I've never seen one say sorry. It's always an excuse, you know, Oh, they came on to me or, you know, I didn't know this, or I don't remember. It's never, they never, ever take that accountability.
Not that it would matter, but it just goes to show the sort of people that they are.
Kristi: The disconnect between their behavior, their offending, what they've done to someone, another human being, another child, and themselves, like, sex offenders, child sex offenders are the biggest narcissists in the world, but
Mel: Absolutely.
Kristi: They, um, it's interesting that story is like almost, So familiar, similar, similar, gosh, can't even get my words out on this Friday afternoon that we're recording this. Um, that, that story is so similar to [00:31:00] a, case that I investigated over here , after the, uh, Royal commission.
Catholic Church, boarding school, went to police, ran away. I wonder if it's the same one. No, it's not. It's not. It's in Western Australia. Wow. So, he, he ran away, went to the police, they kicked him up the bum, took him back, he got a flogging at the, and then raped again. You know, like, literally, it's the same thing, and he was in his late 40s, and he was so devastated.
And one of the things I know from investigating those historical cases, especially with the Catholic Church, how sadistic they were to those kids. They were so sadistic. It was
Mel: bad. It was so bad. And you know what? Another thing was, is that he was getting, the boys to abuse each other. So, you know, then they grew up with that guilt because a lot of them actually said that they are so sorry that like what they did to each other, but like, it's not your fault.
Like this is a sadistic man who made you do this. Like you can't carry that shame. And unfortunately [00:32:00] there was another case that was very similar priest as well. 37 kids. He got 14 months on parole just by the way. And yeah, he got 14 months on parole, but he, He's, he, a lot of his, um, victims didn't make it, they actually ended their lives when they were younger.
Yeah. So it's just, and that happens so much because, especially, like, like you said, they're growing up and they're not being believed by anyone. And then they come out like when they're older and they start to see, you know, someone else come forward or they start to see a similar case and they're like, hey, that happened to me.
And they're like, like they realize. And they're like, I wonder if anyone will take me seriously now. And that's why we have so many historical abuse cases going on because back then it was just, if. No one believed you, it would get swept under the rug.
Kristi: And that wasn't,
Mel: that was, yeah.
Kristi: And, and, people knew that this stuff was going on, especially back then, but they just ignored it.
They [00:33:00] just ignored it. Willful ignorance it is. When you know something is wrong and you don't do anything about it, you're willfully ignorant. You're just as responsible as the abuser. And, um,
Mel: With one, with one of them, actually, um, it's probably the same with the other one, but I just remember this detail.
They kept moving, they, so the Catholic church knew about it, but they kept moving him to a different church, and then he would abuse there as well. And it's just Why would they stop when
Kristi: they get away with it?
Mel: I know, that's what I mean. And, and it was just so many children, like, it's worse, it's bad enough being with one child, but having that many, and there was so many times that people could have jumped in and stopped it.
Kristi: Yeah.
Mel: It falls on everyone else as well.
Kristi: Yeah, and that, that's a good Like their
Mel: part in it.
Kristi: That's a good segue to sort of talking about what we can do. Because you and I are both advocates. We both share tips, [00:34:00] tools, you know, things for parents and things for, and you know, we're quite comfortable talking about this stuff, right?
We talk about it every day. We deal with it every day. Um, yes, it's exhausting and triggering for us, but we would rather, we, we don't want to be doing anything else. We just want to help you with your kids. So for anyone listening, we want you to know that, , We know that it's hard, but you know, we know now that 28.
5%, nearly 30 percent of all Australians have been victims of child sexual abuse. And you know, most people take between 24 and 30 years to report for the, or to finally disclose to someone. Um, and you can see why when you, the first people you try and tell don't actually listen or they, they don't validate you.
And then, so you'll, you'll start holding onto that weight. For so many years. So what advice do you give to parents about, you know, what we, we started off with tricky behaviors, those things to watch out for. [00:35:00] What advice do you give to people?
Mel: I think for, well, for me personally, the advice that I would give to parents is don't trust anyone around your kids.
I don't care who they are. If they're a grandfather, sister, whatever, don't trust. Any, don't blindly trust people with your kids, be very vigilant with who your children are around and the behaviors that they are displaying when they're around certain people. If they feel uncomfortable. And that's another thing is we know that children will indirectly tell us.
If they're being child's, like, child's, if they're being sexually abused. So it's very common for them to tell you indirectly, like, and that's why it's so important to pay attention to signs, pay attention to what they tell you. If they feel uncomfortable around someone, you know, listen to your child and don't force.
Another thing I see so much is people forcing affection with their children to other family members and stuff. Don't do that. I don't think your, your [00:36:00] child has a choice. If they want to do that, let them. But if they, if they're feeling uncomfortable by the way someone is with them, like you need to really respond to that and pay attention, educate yourself.
There's so many things that you can do really, like, I could go on forever with the things that I want everyone to do. But
Kristi: that they're good starting points because, um, I say the same thing. Don't blindly trust anyone with your child, you know, supervise, don't be naive. Don't be naive. Don't, don't, don't have blinkers on thinking it's not my child, not my family, not going to happen, because I can tell you now, I've, I've investigated cases where none of the children of the person has actually been abused, but the, the grandfather then goes on to abuse the grandchildren because there's a, in their mind, there has to be a, there's some barriers that they have to get past, so for instance, you know, we know with the psychology of it, they have to get past their first barrier of resistance, which is, you know, this is bad, this is wrong.
Um, you know, blah, blah, blah. And when they [00:37:00] get over that barrier, then they've got to get past the barrier of finding a child. So then they find a child and then they've got to get past the barrier of the child's resistance and the parent's resistance. So, you know, it doesn't happen. They just don't wake up one day and go, I'm going to abuse a child.
This can take years before it actually happens. And there's a
Mel: method to it. I think, you know, people think, oh, if they get like, it's just an opportunity that they have, but which happens, but they're really with grooming and all that. It's a process and it's, it's a slow process. Like they'll, they'll befriend the parents, they'll earn the trust of the parents.
So automatically the child's going to trust them because the parent trusts them. And then they weasel their way in and that's it. That's how they do it. So it's so important to make sure you know who's around your kids. And again, don't just blindly trust anyone with your kids. Be vigilant with your children.
Kristi: Well, we want to keep them safe. Like, I mean, no, I, it, it was one of the, one of the [00:38:00] driving factors for me was, you know, children are so resilient, but why should they have to put up with this? What parent wants this to happen to their crew?
Mel: I remember you said that. Yeah.
Kristi: Yeah.
Mel: I remember you said we need to teach our kids resilience, but not against child sexual abuse.
You don't need to teach your kids resilience, like, against that. You have to make sure that that doesn't happen to them. Because while they're so young, we, we are their safety. We are the ones who can protect them. Like, when I was four, I didn't, I wasn't educated on it. We And I didn't know that what was happening was wrong.
So I thought it was fine. And I didn't tell my, I ended up telling my parents right before school and I had no idea how I came to tell them. I just said, this is what's happening. And then I was lucky to be believed, but it's just, yeah, you need to make sure your kids, you need to make sure your kids are educated.
That's the main one. Educate your children as young as possible because if they don't know [00:39:00] what the risks are, and if they don't know that someone can be a threat to them, they're not going to know when it's happening. They're not going to know that it's wrong.
Kristi: And I'm sure if you've never listened to this podcast before, and you've never heard us talk about protective behaviors and body safety, and you've never, believe us, you're not sitting there with your three year old going, you know, don't let it, no one's allowed to touch it.
No, there's certain things and there's certain tools you can teach them. And we talk about that in other episodes with there's books that you can get. I've talked to all of those people. So for anyone who's listening, who's never heard, Before go back and have a look and listen to those podcasts because there is tools that you can teach.
And I, my daughter was three when I started teaching protective behaviors. And yeah, and that was just happened because I became a specialist child interviewer then and that's when I knew about them. I'd never, I was like gobsmacked that we didn't know this stuff before they were born. And I was like, why didn't I know this?
Um, so yeah, so you're right.
Mel: Yeah. It's crazy. It's not a thing [00:40:00] that we really teach when. It's one in one in three girls, one in almost one in five boys in Australia. Like, that's a lot, and we're not teaching this. Like, that's pretty insane. We need to be teaching this. I think we focus a lot on stranger danger, which we should, but we need to stop separating the two and just look at it like your children need to know that they have boundaries and that they should have boundaries in place.
You need to know how to look after your child and keep them safe. It's just, I, I think that we need to start teaching this so much more than we are, and there's so many resources out there now, like you said, there's the books, you don't need to just upfront tell your kids, like, I think a lot of people are like, oh, it's really inappropriate to talk to them about this, but at this age, but this is the, it's, this is the age it's happening, you know, if you don't talk to them, it's going to happen regardless.
Kristi: Exactly. That was my biggest thing. That's what I got from working in the police. What's the one thing, and you might, I've thrown you on the spot here, what's the one thing that [00:41:00] you would say you got from working as a prison guard?
Mel: Oh, yes. Except, um, besides PTSD and mental health
Kristi: issues. Yeah, same girl, same pie.
Mel: Yeah. Besides all that, I, um, Honestly, I feel like I'm not naive anymore. I feel like I learned so much about, you know, child predators and how it happens and how common it is that all that stuff I've learned has brought me to where I am today. I have tough skin now. I didn't before I have, like, I've got a basic understanding of.
How everything happens with child sexual abuse. And I think that's really important because it helps me in this space. But another thing, and this is going to sound really weird, that job desensitized me a lot. So I can listen to triggering details and it [00:42:00] doesn't, it doesn't, It's not that it doesn't make me sad, it just doesn't trigger me.
So I think that's been really beneficial in my space because I have so many disclosures and I have so many victim survivors that reach out and straight away they'll tell me all the details of the story and I'm able to talk to them and validate them without running away from that.
Kristi: And
Mel: I think that's really, like, that's one thing that I took, like, yes, I got desensitized but I'm doing something with that.
I'm using that. to pretty much help as many people as I can.
Kristi: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, and, um, I take, give my hat off to you because as a survivor of, you know, child sexual abuse, not just once, twice, but multiple times, you know, these things do trigger it like your own trauma from being a child victim. And, , they do, they they, It does take its toll.
So it's really important to look after our mental health as we've discussed. Um, yeah. So my last question for you, and it's one that I [00:43:00] ask on every podcast, is that when I was writing my book, every time I, like, when I was trying to work out what I wanted to tell parents, I kept thinking, if parents knew what I knew, They would do things differently, like that's all I could think is when I was sitting there typing away.
So you've talked about all of this great, wonderful stuff, but is there one thing that if parents knew what you knew would make them do it differently?
Mel: Yep, that's 93 percent of victims know their abuser, so just remember that it can, it's most likely to be someone in your inner circle, and if you're going to do anything differently, don't focus on Thank you.
strangers and who is out there, focus on who is in your space. That's a big thing. Um, you know what? I always, I always say sleepovers too. I don't do sleepovers and I, this is actually a really taboo thing as well. I've seen it on Instagram, people actually arguing about it. I'm not [00:44:00] saying, I'm not saying don't let your kids sleep over, but just know that.
When they're not in your care and they're with people that you trust and that they may trust, you don't know what's going to happen. So if you're going to be sending your children to sleepovers, make sure that they are well educated, that they know about consent, that they know about their body boundaries before you send them and make sure that they have a safe space.
safe. Like I'm always, I've, I've said this before. If, if you're going to send your kids somewhere, make sure they have their own phone. Like if they go into a sleepover, you don't want to rely, you don't want to rely on if something happens and the only way for them to contact you is through the person that they're staying with.
That's not really safe, you know? So you need to have your own words. A safe word is really good because you know, if they ever feel in danger where they are. They can do that. Um, I've just seen so many and I know so many people that have been abused at sleepovers. And I think that's one thing. I get a lot of hate for it.
[00:45:00] Everyone's like, Oh, you know, we used to have fun back in the day and stuff. But it's a big thing for me. Like, once you've been through it and you know how traumatizing it is, you will do anything to make sure your children don't go through it.
Kristi: I'm, I'm 100 percent with you. If I had my time over again as a parent, I would have reduced sleepovers.
Luckily, touch wood, thank God, my daughter wasn't in that position, but you know what? I had, she didn't do sleepovers, proper sleepovers until she was in high school, but even still, like, I look back and I go, There's so much pressure for children, especially young children, to go on sleepovers and, you know, even sleepovers to grandparents house.
You know, I can't tell you how many times and, and, you know, sometimes that's such a relief for your parents to take your kids on and have them for the night. But you have to be so freaking sure of them because I can't tell you how many times I've investigated grandparents. Because whilst they're there, [00:46:00] whilst they're there, they're being abused by one of the relatives at that house or, because that generation of parent was not like this generation of parent.
They didn't have the same supervision rules. They didn't have the same. They were very,
Mel: very naive. I found, I find very naive and very oblivious. Ignorant.
Kristi: Ignorant sometimes.
Mel: Yes. Definitely. Well,
Kristi: that's amazing. Thank you so much for having a really awesome chat and for being so honest and, and so brutally honest because people need to hear it and I love it.
Um, so where can people find you if they want to check you out and find it, find you? What's the best place?
Mel: So I'm only on Instagram at the moment because TikTok keeps censoring my videos. TikTok. You said that. I did not.
Kristi: I'm like, how come they don't censor me? What's going on?
Mel: I don't know. They don't like when I say pedophile.
They automatically just won't let my video get any views or go anywhere. And like, how are you going to build? You know, anything with that. So I just got really frustrated and I wanted to prove a point. So I'm like, bye, TikTok.
Kristi: [00:47:00] But,
Mel: um, you can find me on Instagram now at melwatsonofficial. I'm also on YouTube as melwatsonofficial as well.
And eventually I will expand to other platforms, but
Kristi: That's perfectly fine. I'll make sure that I
Mel: am.
Kristi: Um, I'll make sure I put your links in now and in the show notes, but thanks so much again, Mel, it's a Friday afternoon. We tried to do this earlier in the week, just didn't happen because our internet
Mel: wasn't good.
Yeah,
Kristi: and, um, but yeah, thank you again. And thanks for having
Mel: me.
Kristi: You're welcome. And thanks to everyone for listening to this episode of the Cape Podcast.
Thank you for listening to this podcast episode. Education empowers children and empowers parents and education prevents abuse. That is why I'm here and that is why you are here. So thank you. If you want any further information or support, follow me on [00:48:00] social media, either under Christy McVie or KAU social media accounts.
I'll put the links in the show notes. You can also purchase a copy of my book Operation Kids Safe via the [email protected]. Also, on my website is a free ebook titled 10 Tips to Keep Your Kids Safe from Abuse. and self paced courses for parents to help you in your journey of child abuse prevention. Please see the show notes for any extra information, links and help should you be looking for extra support. Thank you once again for giving a shit about preventing child sexual abuse. See you next time.
